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Need to ask - arty balance?

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Crucify me, clicker-haters, but I want to ask about the viability of arty now in comparison to pre-nerf arty. I was at high-tier German and Russian arties before the nerf, and want to know how useful / accurate they are. Info on the other lines would be appreciated as well.

 

I remember the good old days when heavy tanks were a tight fit inside the aiming circle of a SU-14. Is arty still that useful now? Thanks all.

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Tier 8 is probably the most viable tier for arty, from then on the only thing that will change is accuracy and reload but damage will stay the same.

 

The difference between a GW tiger tier 8 and 9 is like swapping guns on the T-54(the tier 9 guns that is)

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It just feels like, "what's the point?" now. Before the nerfs one of the guys I play with (60 day green) and I were both playing S-51s. Pre-nerf he was doing 900 damage a battle, I was doing 1800. Post nerf we ran them and were both doing 600 a battle. It got reduced a tier, essentially, so a reduction in damage was appropriate; what wasn't appropriate is that what modest amount of skill which was required basically evaporated. It's now almost playing a slot machine.

 

Basically if you're less than green arty overperforms, but the better you are the more playing it is like tying your hands. I stopped playing it completely, I got sick of standing there hoping to roll three cherries instead of being able to influence battles with some consistency. They nerfed arty by flat-lining its performance and making it just plain boring so their numbers are no longer an issue.

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I think that Arty should be made so what their damage hits for is more consistent.  Nerf Alpha (a lot of some of them), but increas pen to make higher chances of full damage.

With the 700m draw range circle coming,  I think all arty should be able to only see tanks within the draw range.  I also think that instead of the god mode where you just mouse over tank, you kind of have an increased hieght over the SPG, and you can aim from there.

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Basically if you're less than green arty overperforms, but the better you are the more playing it is like tying your hands. I stopped playing it completely, I got sick of standing there hoping to roll three cherries instead of being able to influence battles with some consistency. They nerfed arty by flat-lining its performance and making it just plain boring so their numbers are no longer an issue.

 

I fully agree. I sold all 4 of my arty pieces after the patch; it was too RNG-based. It looks as if the newbies, who haven't played prenerf arty, have been getting used to it again - thus the influx of arty recently. That's why I asked my question, as I was unsure if it was a buff that I missed or if it was just newbies.

I think that Arty should be made so what their damage hits for is more consistent.  Nerf Alpha (a lot of some of them), but increas pen to make higher chances of full damage.

With the 700m draw range circle coming,  I think all arty should be able to only see tanks within the draw range.  I also think that instead of the god mode where you just mouse over tank, you kind of have an increased hieght over the SPG, and you can aim from there.

 

That would wreck brit arty, as you wouldn't be able to hit over buildings. I always thought of it as the arty crew having a map of the battlezone and getting reports on tank positions from friendlies - the map would basically be godmode. Arty wouldn't be able to play otherwise, IMO. Also, that'd make counterbattery impossible - wrecking one of the only things left that needs arty skill.

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It just feels like, "what's the point?" now. Before the nerfs one of the guys I play with (60 day green) and I were both playing S-51s. Pre-nerf he was doing 900 damage a battle, I was doing 1800. Post nerf we ran them and were both doing 600 a battle. It got reduced a tier, essentially, so a reduction in damage was appropriate; what wasn't appropriate is that what modest amount of skill which was required basically evaporated. It's now almost playing a slot machine.

 

Basically if you're less than green arty overperforms, but the better you are the more playing it is like tying your hands. I stopped playing it completely, I got sick of standing there hoping to roll three cherries instead of being able to influence battles with some consistency. They nerfed arty by flat-lining its performance and making it just plain boring so their numbers are no longer an issue.

Basically this.  If you look at the W8 values, Arty is the worst by tier at higher tiers. Usually below 50% Expected win rate. That means you are not an asset to your team.

 

Most clans will bring at most 2 (to break a turtle), usually 0 or 1  to a CW battle. 

 

There will still be random explosions, but it is inconsistent, especially for T8+.  There are some interesting ones at low tier, One of the british could almost pass for a TD.

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Don't listen to the haters arty is still fine, sure you can't switch from aiming at one tank to aiming at another tank as fast, but they still hit for stupid amounts of damage. I have been trolling in a T92 with gold shells on a friends account, it still oneshots stuff, it still splashes several targets for 2k. The British CGC is even worse with it's orbital arc.. so yea arty is fine so long as you preplan your aiming location.

 

However with that said... fuck arty and fuck arty gold shells.

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Having been just one shot by arty who didn't stop to aim I can anecdotally say... I fucking hate arty.

 

 

However, well played arty still seems quite decent but US and Brit lines seem to be most decent. I really wish arty played more like the FV304, more consistent less alpha. Move away from giant orbital death cannons to something like an indirect fire L7 or something.

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The nerf to arty helped to cull the constant crying and demands for arty nerfs, but failed to address the primary problem. That fucking alpha. Just like the TD's, the sheer alpha is what causes a camping meta because the risk you take to expose yourself is just not worth the reward in most cases. I played the 183 on the test server recently and I didn't think it was a great tank, but a fun tank. The gun handling is terrible and HESH is about as reliable as a cheesecloth condom, but when it pens, that fucking alpha.... I felt sorry for the guys I hit, they didn't even stand a chance of fighting back, no second chances. The same goes for arty, yes the accuracy is bad, yes HE is unreliable, yes you spend 5mins reloading, but when you pen that shot on some poor sod trying to brawl it out against enemies who already outnumber him, what is he supposed to do? He doesn't stand a chance... He didn't see the shot coming, had no chance of avoiding it.

 

Anyways.. It seems like arty can still be viable, particularly the high tier brits, for best results they work together and focus targets for those combined hits, nuking us heavies into orbit.

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Basically if you're less than green arty overperforms, but the better you are the more playing it is like tying your hands.

 

 

Arty actually underperforms at basically all levels.  A red clicker is going to be even worse than a red tank because he isn't available as a distraction to enemies and since he has no map knowledge or ability to predict what enemy tanks are going to do (hence being red) he isn't going to be rolling dice on the right tanks either.  And probably doesn't stop to aim, and can't do complicated things like remembering where a tank was if it disappears, even if it's a T95 and therefore probably hasn't gone very far.

 

People who have map knowledge and experience with the game can at least roll the dice on the right targets, but are still using an inherently unreliable weapon so they underperform as well.

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I think they should turn arty into a line of soft TD's. Drop arty mode, up their hit points, agility, speed, gun handling, and possibly DPM. Retain some bullet drop so they can arc shots over low hills.

I'd take getting shot in the back by a crafty mobile SPG in a city fight over being luck clicked at full speed behind a hill any day.

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I think they should turn arty into a line of soft TD's. Drop arty mode, up their hit points, agility, speed, gun handling, and possibly DPM. Retain some bullet drop so they can arc shots over low hills.

 

What I see most of you suggesting is to make arty another derp TD line with a higher arc. We can't have that - arty must be distinct and separate as a class.

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arty needs to be completely revamped before i will even consider accepting it as a game mechanic

 

it should be a support weapon, used for area denial of large groups of enemies. Dropping innacurate shells onto a large push, not lazerbeaming single tanks like a fucking ion cannon

 

arty is a testament to how good this game is. if a lesser game had such a stupid fucking mechanic, I would never bother playing it.

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Personally I'd like to see arty alpha nerfed, but not for many of the same reasons. I'd like to see arty become more of an area denial weapon. Bigger splash, less damage, higher reload. Basically they can hit a specific area within 50m but good luck on really hitting anything inside that area.

Ontop of that, how HE explodes IMO really needs looked at. Right now, if you're in an arty shell explosion, there is no loss of damage when hit. Meaning you can be dead center of the explosion or at the edge, still get the same roll on damage regardless.

Needs to be changed. So at dead center you get max damage, but at the edge you only get say 50% of that damage roll.

Just a couple of things I'd change.

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Ontop of that, how HE explodes IMO really needs looked at. Right now, if you're in an arty shell explosion, there is no loss of damage when hit. Meaning you can be dead center of the explosion or at the edge, still get the same roll on damage regardless.

 

 

HE damage scales linearly with the distance from the centre of the explosion, that's why low tier arty frequently does nothing because it has a really small radius.

 

High tier arty though has very large explosion radius.

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HE damage scales linearly with the distance from the centre of the explosion, that's why low tier arty frequently does nothing because it has a really small radius.

 

High tier arty though has very large explosion radius.

You misunderstand. When a t92 shell drops, doesn't matter if you got hit dead center of the 20m gold shell range or right on the edge. If it rolls 1800 dmg, you get 1800 dmg REGARDLESS of where the shell lands in that 20M radius.

That's asinine. Should be 1800 at ground zero, 20 Meters out at it's max splash range should be 50% less or 900 on that roll.

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That's basically the same effect? At the edge of a splash the damage amount is almost 0. If the radius was 10m and you were 9m away from the blast center, it would only be 10% damage of the shell. 1800 * 10% = 180. Under most circumstances there won't even be any damage done in that scenario, might track or 50 damage sort of thing. If you dropped the base damage in addition to the distance reduction which already exists it would drop it from full damage to nothing in half the distance.

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You misunderstand. When a t92 shell drops, doesn't matter if you got hit dead center of the 20m gold shell range or right on the edge. If it rolls 1800 dmg, you get 1800 dmg REGARDLESS of where the shell lands in that 20M radius.

That's asinine. Should be 1800 at ground zero, 20 Meters out at it's max splash range should be 50% less or 900 on that roll.

 

wat? that's not how splash works.

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You misunderstand. When a t92 shell drops, doesn't matter if you got hit dead center of the 20m gold shell range or right on the edge. If it rolls 1800 dmg, you get 1800 dmg REGARDLESS of where the shell lands in that 20M radius.

That's asinine. Should be 1800 at ground zero, 20 Meters out at it's max splash range should be 50% less or 900 on that roll.

 

The HE damage equation is:

 

Equation_explosion-damage.png

 

For every 1% of the explosion radius the chosen point of your armour is you take 1% less of the shell damage.

 

Also, the damage for HE shells is always halved if they don't penetrate, before the effects of armour and distance are calculated).

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arty needs to be completely revamped before i will even consider accepting it as a game mechanic

 

it should be a support weapon, used for area denial of large groups of enemies. Dropping innacurate shells onto a large push, not lazerbeaming single tanks like a fucking ion cannon

 

arty is a testament to how good this game is. if a lesser game had such a stupid fucking mechanic, I would never bother playing it.

Yes. Half alpha but double splash was/is my idea. Arty can also destroy all buildings, hiding behind a building is not %100 safe, you could get splashed or building falling on you.

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