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Tiger I - The holy crusade for German supremacy

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6 hours ago, monkey10120 said:

How the fuck do you 3 mark this piece of shit tank

 

Seriously is slow as fuck, the gun sucks dick and it has no armor. Unless you are top tier you cant reliably do anything.

3 marking this thing was very easy during the quasi sniper map meta with old swamp & south coast. IIRC 1.5k to 2k average damage makes 9 stripes.

Tiger I with 100 octane feels like a goddamn IS-3 cruising at 35kph. I can't relate to that issue.

8.8 cm long barrel is bad? The .33 accuracy, 5.5? second reload, 200mm penetration standard and 2.4 second aim time. The only con I can recognize is the bad bloom but it's definitely manageable. Aim your snapshots a little longer CQC and play peak-a-boom with snap shottable targets, not that hull down M103 behind the Erlenburg gun port wall. Limited exposure is a must.

If I can fuck shit up bottom tier in a inferior Tiger (P) with god pen, demi-god gun handling, fair RoF albeit low DPM, and -5kph slower heavy tank then the Tiger I as a snap shooting medium tank with a TD's E-25'ed gun can do better. The chassis is similar to the M3 Lee in MT mode but is alliviated with 80mm side armor for HP conservation and 1,500 HP to spend on aggression plays which means it's one of most carry hard tier tier 7 in the game.

4 hours ago, Rexxie said:

I think you're confused, the Tiger P thread is down thataway.

I find the Tiger (P) to be a blend between the philosophies of the BP and the T29.

A Tiger (P) is on par with the T29 in mobility and easily outspeeds the BP.

The BP is the Maus of tier 7 HT's. The Tiger (P) plays like a German style T-10 or T110E5 in regards to armor. It can tank effectively due to it's frontal hull layout and the techniques a player can apply. Tactics like angling a corner, peek-a-boom, turret angling after firing, aggressive and erratic shifting. And if that fails then it has 1,500 HP and the gun type advantage where it can 480>390/320 it's contemporaries

The T29 and Tiger (P) can stand a fair chance as bottom tier. The T29 is a OP tier 7.95 tank for reasons we both know. The Tiger (P) can shift like a T29, snipe like a Tiger I with only a R.o.F of tier 8 mediums which isn't bad, present a smaller target to autopen via the turret, and other traits similar to the Tiger I when it's bottom tier.

Tl;Dr: [(T29 >>> Tiger I  > Tiger (P)) = good tanks]

Tiger (P) is 80% of a Tiger I. Also Tiger (P) gets a chassis that similar to a T-10 or VK P instead of a M3 Lee with turret & 80mm side armor. 

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Close to unlocking the Tiger II, but have not unlocked the top engine on the Tiger H -- top engine worth 18K+ XP?

  Seems like it's heavier and only gives about 50 HP?

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10 hours ago, Invictus said:

Close to unlocking the Tiger II, but have not unlocked the top engine on the Tiger H -- top engine worth 18K+ XP?

  Seems like it's heavier and only gives about 50 HP?

Tiger I has a low P/W ratio and every HP you can squeeze will help.

It's the difference between reaching 34kph & 37kph on medium terrain with resistances.

Also the 25% increase in module HP is convenient.

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Conveniently ran out of free xp as soon as this thing went on sale, had the long 88 researched from the Tiger (P) but not enough xp for the turret or the tracks.

Suffered for a bit with the stock gun, sprung for the Torsion bars and finally got the turret unlocked.

Wow, where has this tank been all my life? I was expecting it to be somewhat like an AMX M4 45 (which I played with the DCA 45), but the epic dpm and much better gun handling makes for a totally different tank where you can buzzsaw through just about anything you come across.

Probably my tier 7 keeper until I get the T29 unlocked. Great tank.

 

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1 hour ago, FavreFan4ever said:

Wow, where has this tank been all my life? I was expecting it to be somewhat like an AMX M4 45 (which I played with the DCA 45), but the epic dpm and much better gun handling makes for a totally different tank where you can buzzsaw through just about anything you come across.

I the past a lot of people have said that the M45 was a poor mans Tiger H.

The Tiger H was my first tier 7 back in the day, and I still have fond memories of it. The combination of a historical tank which was actually decent just checked all my boxes, when I started out :)

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On 1/17/2016 at 11:22 PM, Casas5591 said:

3 marking this thing was very easy during the quasi sniper map meta with old swamp & south coast. IIRC 1.5k to 2k average damage makes 9 stripes.

Tiger I with 100 octane feels like a goddamn IS-3 cruising at 35kph. I can't relate to that issue.

8.8 cm long barrel is bad? The .33 accuracy, 5.5? second reload, 200mm penetration standard and 2.4 second aim time. The only con I can recognize is the bad bloom but it's definitely manageable. Aim your snapshots a little longer CQC and play peak-a-boom with snap shottable targets, not that hull down M103 behind the Erlenburg gun port wall. Limited exposure is a must.

If I can fuck shit up bottom tier in a inferior Tiger (P) with god pen, demi-god gun handling, fair RoF albeit low DPM, and -5kph slower heavy tank then the Tiger I as a snap shooting medium tank with a TD's E-25'ed gun can do better. The chassis is similar to the M3 Lee in MT mode but is alliviated with 80mm side armor for HP conservation and 1,500 HP to spend on aggression plays which means it's one of most carry hard tier tier 7 in the game.

Finally got my 3 marks on mine. W62qz1E.jpg

 

Overall its not a good tank though. 

-Armor. Hah, T5s go through you like butter and even you turret is crap. This makes pushing and holding a flank difficult and impossible when in a T8,9 fight. 

-Gun. Overall its shit. Yeah on paper it has .33 accuracy. Not sure how WG decides a tanks accuracy but this thing his now where near center 90% of the time. Even .4 accuracy guns hit center more times than not, but not this gun. Also forget snap shots, until you hear the noise for fully aimed in this gun feels like its programmed to hit edge of reticle

-Mobility. I am not sure why you run octane on your tiger....But this thing is a turd when it comes to mobility. On hard surfaces and flat ground its mobility isnt bad. But the moment you hit medium surface or up a small hill screw mobility. Its all because its shit terrain resistances. 

You mentioned the tiger p being able to fuck shit up bottom tier but even that is a slower xp pinata for T8 plus. Yeah the armor might work at T7 but the problem with these two heavies are that you have to fight T8,9 which have armor and when heavies determine a win or loss early game, these just fail at the role. Also the fact that I am playing at 7pm Central time on EU server, 70-80% of my matches are T8,9.

So all in all the only good thing about the tiger is HP and DPM. 

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2 hours ago, monkey10120 said:

Finally got my 3 marks on mine. W62qz1E.jpg

 

Overall its not a good tank though. 

-Armor. Hah, T5s go through you like butter and even you turret is crap. This makes pushing and holding a flank difficult and impossible when in a T8,9 fight. 

You mentioned the tiger p being able to fuck shit up bottom tier but even that is a slower xp pinata for T8 plus. Yeah the armor might work at T7 but the problem with these two heavies are that you have to fight T8,9 which have armor and when heavies determine a win or loss early game, these just fail at the role. Also the fact that I am playing at 7pm Central time on EU server, 70-80% of my matches are T8,9.

So all in all the only good thing about the tiger is HP and DPM. 

We both know the armor isn't phenomenal but it certainly does count for a lot if you treat it as if a % chance to nullify damage rather than a crutch to get you where you need to be. Especially against lower tiers, that armor + HP makes it a great win condition tank. 

Most -2 tier tank at tier 7 minus the T29 is going to find holding a flank against +2 opposition extremely difficult, especially so for tanks where "armor" is their forte. Tanks like the KV-3 or BP. The Tiger 1 has no armor for those +2 tiers but really your role shouldn't be the "focus heavy" bottom tier but rather pushing medium zones and applying DPM at advantageous/flanking positions which. If not that then wouldn't asserting the role of support tank be not so absurd with that 6 second reload? All it is is a matter of whether you can escape a heavy brawl with 2nd-line positioning I daresay. Having tons of HP at late game can certainly serve it's purpose and you can still render yourself effective early game thanks to the TD/Medium qualities of the gun. 

2 hours ago, monkey10120 said:

 

-Gun. Overall its shit. Yeah on paper it has .33 accuracy. Not sure how WG decides a tanks accuracy but this thing his now where near center 90% of the time. Even .4 accuracy guns hit center more times than not, but not this gun. Also forget snap shots, until you hear the noise for fully aimed in this gun feels like its programmed to hit edge of reticle

-Mobility. I am not sure why you run octane on your tiger....But this thing is a turd when it comes to mobility. On hard surfaces and flat ground its mobility isnt bad. But the moment you hit medium surface or up a small hill screw mobility. Its all because its shit terrain resistances. 

So all in all the only good thing about the tiger is HP and DPM. 

Have you tried keeping swerving to a minimum? I usually poke at straight lines or in a sidescraping angle. I snapshot at close range or on the move trying to get someplace ASAP, fully aim when I'm sniping ofc & half-ass aim at everything else. Missing isn't as consequential because of the R.o.F. I feel the gun is very manageable and you do notice the bloom. It will hurt but it really isn't as crippling in the grand scale of things.

I can't afford foods so I roll with 100-octane which is especially helpful to aid in both mobility and turret traverse. The less time you spend turning in the heat action, the more time you will have to aim if required. Staying on the flattest possible surface will keep you in the 32's at least. Using the tiniest dips can really boost your speed.  A lot of tanks suffer in hill climbing. It's a general rule.

Generally speaking, yeah. It makes a good medium tank because of that HP/DPM for early/late game damage and it makes a good heavy because it has HP/DPM to at least sustain it's presence and do 2 for 1's. It's all a matter of how far the Tiger 1 can transcend the playstyle of the medium & heavy classes and striking a perfect balance of playstyle.

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33 minutes ago, Casas5591 said:

Generally speaking, yeah. It makes a good medium tank because of that HP/DPM for early/late game damage and it makes a good heavy because it has HP/DPM to at least sustain it's presence and do 2 for 1's. It's all a matter of how far the Tiger 1 can transcend the playstyle of medium & heavy classes and striking a perfect balance of playstyle.

You keep mentioning its ability over being a heavium and doing well against meds. Problem is even against medium tanks its horrible. I mean they can auto aim you and peak a  boom because the tiger is so big. While in return I have to preaim or snapshot every shot at them. Also god forbid they rush you. Yeah DPM is nice but that traverse and turret traverse are horrible.

This tank would be more balanced at T6 like the Jap 6. It has no business fighting T9. I mean really what will it do vs most T9 meds and nothing to T9 heavies.

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45 minutes ago, monkey10120 said:

I mean really what will it do vs most T9 meds and nothing to T9 heavies.

Isn't that every tier 7 ever? Dunno how Tiger 1 is capable now, but I liked it when I played it. HP and DPM were enough assets for me to overcome most tanks. Tho I'm not sure what you consider bad, after all you did 3 mark it.

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TBH I just cant relate at all. The Tiger H's sustained damage output is so obscene that I find it's almost unfair. TD damage output on a heavy with T8 HP, "enough" armor (no HE pens, sidescrape very possible, hulldown will bounce stray shots - basically FCM armor a tier lower), solid gun handling, and the ability to cruise around at 35 kph. It's far from being slow, I remember the last time I played it I was mentioning to ziddy how it's not really fair that I can keep up with IS's.

The lack of armor has never been a problem for me as much as the module damage. It could get pretty bad, especially considering how many pens you'll take before dying - it's a lot of HP to chew through, but after burning through 1200 or so your tank is crippled. Still, it's just module damage. In general I found the tank incredibly effective, you just have to be a bit picky about your engagements - playing into iffy situations to get a few shells off has always been a bit of a downer in the tank. Taking your time and exploiting an opening when it eventually does open up, however, is a job it's incredibly good at. You get 30 seconds of free reign and suddenly that 1k damage match has turned into a 3k damage match. Great fun.

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43 minutes ago, no_name_cro said:

Isn't that every tier 7 ever? Dunno how Tiger 1 is capable now, but I liked it when I played it. HP and DPM were enough assets for me to overcome most tanks. Tho I'm not sure what you consider bad, after all you did 3 mark it.

T29 has a turret it can rely on in some cases with more alpha to make trading better, IS2 has ok side armor and can side scrape a bit against T8 but it also has great alpha to trade with. ONI has good frontal armor and good gun. Against higher tiers trading is key. One which the tiger with 240 alpha cant do well against T8,9s. 

I did 3 mark it but it was the work needed to. 1 T9 match would just fuck you on marks since you can do anything to impact the match.

35 minutes ago, Rexxie said:

TBH I just cant relate at all. The Tiger H's sustained damage output is so obscene that I find it's almost unfair. TD damage output on a heavy with T8 HP, "enough" armor (no HE pens, sidescrape very possible, hulldown will bounce stray shots - basically FCM armor a tier lower), solid gun handling, and the ability to cruise around at 35 kph. It's far from being slow, I remember the last time I played it I was mentioning to ziddy how it's not really fair that I can keep up with IS's.

The lack of armor has never been a problem for me as much as the module damage. It could get pretty bad, especially considering how many pens you'll take before dying - it's a lot of HP to chew through, but after burning through 1200 or so your tank is crippled. Still, it's just module damage. In general I found the tank incredibly effective, you just have to be a bit picky about your engagements - playing into iffy situations to get a few shells off has always been a bit of a downer in the tank. Taking your time and exploiting an opening when it eventually does open up, however, is a job it's incredibly good at. You get 30 seconds of free reign and suddenly that 1k damage match has turned into a 3k damage match. Great fun.

Sidescaping only works on auto bounce angles and to get that angle you can see the front hull. I tried but players didnt care, just shot and penned me anyway. But the gun is far from solid gun handling. Bad aim time and horrid in game accuracy made it a pain to use more than 50m away. It refuses to go center, far from its .33 advertised accuracy.

Also with its bad terrain resistances its slow as crap. The IS2 is just as fast on flat ground but it will pass the tiger pretty quick on even a 5-10 degree slope. Take traverse into account and its even worse.

Dude, the module damage, especially ammo AND FUCKING ENGINE, is retarded. Yeah I get it, the tiger has no armor, but why the fuck give it module hp so low. Many matches I ended the game with a dead engine, driver and gunner after repairing my ammo. I mean if you can live with 100-200 hp from constant hits you are useless at the end of the match. 

In T7 fights the tank is great. But like I said it really should be bumped down a tier. And have the Tiger 2 porshe as the T7 with the 8.8 or 10.5. Be it a weak turret face, at least the entire hull isnt auto pen.

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15 minutes ago, monkey10120 said:

T29 has a turret it can rely on in some cases with more alpha to make trading better, IS2 has ok side armor and can side scrape a bit against T8 but it also has great alpha to trade with. ONI has good frontal armor and good gun. Against higher tiers trading is key. One which the tiger with 240 alpha cant do well against T8,9s. 

I did 3 mark it but it was the work needed to. 1 T9 match would just fuck you on marks since you can do anything to impact the match.

Sidescaping only works on auto bounce angles and to get that angle you can see the front hull. I tried but players didnt care, just shot and penned me anyway. But the gun is far from solid gun handling. Bad aim time and horrid in game accuracy made it a pain to use more than 50m away. It refuses to go center, far from its .33 advertised accuracy.

Also with its bad terrain resistances its slow as crap. The IS2 is just as fast on flat ground but it will pass the tiger pretty quick on even a 5-10 degree slope. Take traverse into account and its even worse.

Dude, the module damage, especially ammo AND FUCKING ENGINE, is retarded. Yeah I get it, the tiger has no armor, but why the fuck give it module hp so low. Many matches I ended the game with a dead engine, driver and gunner after repairing my ammo. I mean if you can live with 100-200 hp from constant hits you are useless at the end of the match. 

In T7 fights the tank is great. But like I said it really should be bumped down a tier. And have the Tiger 2 porshe as the T7 with the 8.8 or 10.5. Be it a weak turret face, at least the entire hull isnt auto pen.

The Tiger has a better gun as any tier 8 medium, and also equal / more hp as any tier 8 med.

You can park in front of a t8 med and kill him before he kills you, GG

Even before the stupid buff the tiger was rly, rly rly good, the buff made it overkill, and with KV3 ``rebalanced``, its now the real #1, both top, mid or bottom tier

ps: t29 has no dpm whatsoever, worse mobility, f**king bad gun handling (and 0.4 acc!!). Its imo no comparison whatsoever, a tiger is always better, unless your hull down behind a wreck and you have no other place to fight (so like once every 100 games...)

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9 minutes ago, GehakteMolen said:

The Tiger has a better gun as any tier 8 medium, and also equal / more hp as any tier 8 med.

You can park in front of a t8 med and kill him before he kills you, GG

Even before the stupid buff the tiger was rly, rly rly good, the buff made it overkill, and with KV3 ``rebalanced``, its now the real #1, both top, mid or bottom tier

ps: t29 has no dpm whatsoever, worse mobility, f**king bad gun handling (and 0.4 acc!!). Its imo no comparison whatsoever, a tiger is always better, unless your hull down behind a wreck and you have no other place to fight (so like once every 100 games...)

Even if you can park in front of a T8 med in a DPM war you still wasted all your HP in return. At that point you are one shot for everyone. Plus thats just in a straight up dpm fight which doesnt happen much. One meds begin to use their mobility and camo then you are fucked. Tiger is a huge fucking box so auto aim from any med will work. So while they are peek a booming or using their gun depression or a bush you are just getting wrecked and guess what, with your slow speed and back aim time/gun handling, you cant make use of your DPM or even retreat. 

Even if the DPM is shit with the T29, when its bottom tier it can trade better than any T7 if it is hull down or even side scraping. When bottom tier trading is everything. Also the tiger has shit gun depression for -7. Its turret placement and tall hull makes hill play impossible. T29 will do good in all situations where tiger will only do great in T7 and poor in T9.

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Why don't you guys just agree to disagree? Evidently, this tank is a real hit-or-miss between players of quite similar skill.

I will grind it out eventually because I do not personally enjoy the T29: it's just too slow and is skycancer bait, and I do not enjoy the gun. Is the Tiger 1 faster or slower than the T29? If it's faster, I'll probably get it.

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6 hours ago, Pyr0freak said:

Why don't you guys just agree to disagree? Evidently, this tank is a real hit-or-miss between players of quite similar skill.

I will grind it out eventually because I do not personally enjoy the T29: it's just too slow and is skycancer bait, and I do not enjoy the gun. Is the Tiger 1 faster or slower than the T29? If it's faster, I'll probably get it.

Tiger is a bit faster on medium ground (due to better passibility) on hard and soft they are on par / T29 a bit faster)

Main difference is that the T29 has a ghetto gun with terrible gun handling, sute the V-Stab makes all bloom values 20% less terrible

Aim Time (secs) 2.59 2.21
Accuracy 0.33 0.40
Dispersion (moving) 0.20 0.22
… (tank traverse) 0.20 0.22
… (turret traverse) 0.12 0.18
… (after firing) 4 4
… (damaged) 2 2
Elevation (°) 13 15
Depression (°) 7 10

 

But even with 20% reduction, the turret bloom is still worse, and a tiger, which mounts GLD, gets almost the same aim time, with way better base accuracy, making the gun handling still much better (and thats ignoring the dpm and ``kill time`` advantage (240 is for tier 7 the sweetspot 2 hits for t5 med, 3 hits for t6 tds / meds / t5 heavys etc, with 320 you often get shafted (a t6 med has ~720-770 hp and a few got 820, with 240 dmg you need 3 hits (and sometimes good dmg rolls) with a T29 you also need 3 hits, but have way longer reload time etc

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5 hours ago, GehakteMolen said:

But even with 20% reduction, the turret bloom is still worse, and a tiger, which mounts GLD, gets almost the same aim time, with way better base accuracy, making the gun handling still much better (and thats ignoring the dpm and ``kill time`` advantage (240 is for tier 7 the sweetspot 2 hits for t5 med, 3 hits for t6 tds / meds / t5 heavys etc, with 320 you often get shafted (a t6 med has ~720-770 hp and a few got 820, with 240 dmg you need 3 hits (and sometimes good dmg rolls) with a T29 you also need 3 hits, but have way longer reload time etc

So you're saying that the Tiger 1 can't mount a VStab? That's a shame.

Never knew about this "kill time" advantage though, that's pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing.

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15 minutes ago, Pyr0freak said:

So you're saying that the Tiger 1 can't mount a VStab? That's a shame.

Never knew about this "kill time" advantage though, that's pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing.

T8_dpm_chart.jpg

Its an old table, but still shows it (sort of), if you read the horizontal lines, more green = better, if you read the vertical colums, more red = better. So KV5 has either evetything green or red, since it beats anything 1vs1 in raw dpm fight.

Intersting is that while KV4 has crap dpm, its the second best 1vs1 tank, pure due to optimal alpha dmg (320) and just enough hitpoints (more as 1600), with the rof buff it got, if only became stronger, KT is also very good, while FCM and T32 are clearly ghetto.

Penetration and accuraye ofc also influence this list, but KT and KV4 are the best among the spmm premium tanks...

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I see people raving about this dumpster on tracks, but I just dont get it.  

Stay back and snipe . . . its camo is TOG like, it cant be hidden

Minimize exposure . . . if you move it at all, the bloom is huge 

1500 HP . . . trading 240 for 390 negates the HP if you are forced to brawl, i.e. when IS just drives into your face.

OMG the traverse, I think a matilda could circle strafe this thing.

I guess I played too many games in the IS and the T29, but the whole 'sniper heavy' thing is not working for me.

 

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Its a sniper heavy?

 

I literally played mine like a med and got 3 marks...

In tier 9s i can understand sniping more, in tier 7s and 8s there is no need. The bloom is manageable, especially with good positioning. 

I'm poor so my equipments were binos, net and rammer and the tank was fine with that.
With brawling, you need to be the one that goes into their face for your DPM to work. Don't trade 1 for 1.

To me it was a slow med with a gun that's too evil and far too many hit points. 

Not sure why the traverse is so bad for you, it felt fine for me. its not as if the T29 had a good traverse speed either.

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T 29 has a much better turret traverse, so you need to traverse hull less.

And EGLD is rly good for Tiger...you let those shots aim a bit.

I use optics as a 3rd equipment slot, and thanks to Pz. b2 my commander has 100% recon as 4th skill and radio operator 100% SIA (BIA, rep and 6th before, ofc).

450 m view range and you outspot everything but  ELC or e25s. Buggers.

Since both the T29 or tiger have crap side armor, side shots pen you all the time...but T29 has much better COMBINED traverse, so using Whitman maneuver you can combat the Circle of Death easier.

Optics are good on T 29 too, but you farm assist dmg...beyond 300 m it is shitty acc on both the 90 or 105. Useful on Mali/Prokh to spot for your arty...but less of use than on Tiger

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On January 15, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Rexxie said:

I think you're confused, the Tiger P thread is down thataway.

And here I am all out of upvotes for the day. :(

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Rebought this thing and I agree the armor is garbage, but the gun is absolutely fantastic. 3 marked this thing in 3-4 days and managed to make 1,6 mil credits aswell.

tiger 3 mark.JPG

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Paging @Rexxie, Just saw in your replay thread you repurchased this. I will be picking this in the next day or two. Wanted to ask your recommended setup?

Thank you!

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Rammer, Vents, Optics. The Tiger's lack of armor means you don't usually have the luxury of aiming, so GLD isn't as useful as vents. This also maximizes your view range (I'm currently at 455), allowing you to spot your targets early and keep yourself from feeling gimped on open maps.

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The L/56 88mm is getting a pen buff, but is the L/71 88mm also being buffed?

If not how do they compare in ROF and average damage per shot?

Would the "short" 88 be a viable option here?

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