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How to carry a whole team of tomatoes

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I am a pretty good player and can generally carry one flank most of the time and as long as the other flank can hold up everything is fine.  My problem comes when the whole team is just full of tomatoes that just cant do anything.  So what do you guys that maintain a 60 percent win rate do when you know your team is just going to fail no matter where they go.  Do you sit back, use them for spotting while you do damage and try to carry at the end with full hit points or do you take an aggressive stance and push hard knowing that you will die just thinking if you do enough damage and get enough kills it just might be enough.  Or are these games just a writeoff and you move on.  I guess the most frustrating thing to me is most days I can maintain a 58 percent or higher win rate but some days I win like 40 percent of my games even though my stats stay basically the same or are better.  I want to eliminate those 40 percent days and it is normally on those games where the other team has a lot of decent to good players and my team is just full of fail.  I try to set myself up to fight the good players knowing I can normally counter their influence or at least hurt them in the process or should I try to go after their bad players and use my bad players as bait for the enemy good players.

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This is the matter that interests me greately, as i'm usually one of those that just die with the rest of team no matter what i try to do to prevent meltdown.

 

Staying back is way better than early death, as once you are dead there is not much for tomatos to do than what they do best- die.

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I get those 40% days just like everyone else, but they usually end up being offset by a 70% day here and there, which ends up evening things out.  When I see my entire team pushing the valley on lakeville I do pretty much chalk it up to a loss and switch into a mindset of "let's salvage some wn8".  I'll support my team insofar as possible, but I also constantly look for the best possible place to make my last stand and try my best to make it difficult for the enemy to dig me out. 

 

Sometimes the team weakens the enemy enough for me to salvage a win, but more often than not I end up being the last man standing in a very well-entrenched position against 4-5 enemy tanks, and a lot of times I can still squeeze out an extra 5-6 shots worth of damage while they try to get to me.  It's still a loss on the line score, but I'll claim a moral victory having done twice as much damage as the next person on my team.

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There are a lot of games that just can't be won.  Once you hit a critical mass of bad players (orange or lower) you will lose on all fronts at once.  With only a few bads, you can at least hold a flank and try and work the other.  But once you get 10+ potatoes even a platoon of great players usually isn't enough.

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Yeah Sorphius, that was kind of my thinking as well, Ill have a 65 or better day then a few days later a 40 percent day where I just try to do as much as I can.  Only problem is those 40 percent days make me want to uninstall this freaking game.  Have never really been in it for the stats type of guy, I more just want to win and I will take a bad win over a good loss any day of the week.  Trying to get in the mindset that I will just try to have fun on the bad days and all that nonsense but it isn't working very well.  Just wondering what some other players do for those days.

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There are a lot of games that just can't be won.  Once you hit a critical mass of bad players (orange or lower) you will lose on all fronts at once.  With only a few bads, you can at least hold a flank and try and work the other.  But once you get 10+ potatoes even a platoon of great players usually isn't enough.

Ok understandable, but how do you try to work games like that.

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Those 40% days are pretty rough, especially when I wind up with crappy WN8 trying to save the game. I think I might try damage whoring instead of scooting across map to try to save a failing flank if we're down like 6-7 tanks at that point. I always get caught in the open or get steamrolled by the enemy team when I get there. I'll just find an advantageous position on the strong side and plink away.

 

I wonder if I might manage to win some of those "lost" games if I manage to do enough damage while the opposing team is in the "cleanup + yolo to get the kill" phase.

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It is very dependable on what map, and which tank you're driving.

If the game is 2/10, its ogre and you should just try to deal as much damage as possible before dying, and at least go out fighting.

 

The minimap is the biggest helper in these situations, as it'll help you discover openings where you can flank and try to get some crossfire on the enemy.

If you see your flank struggling that is probably the best way to loosen it up.

 

Though, I would consider it less struggling to prevent outcomes like this, with trying to position yourself in such ways that you can harass as much as possible and try to deal damage as much as possible without losing your own health.

As the more you just look at the enemy without doing anything, the higher the changes are that your team is getting wrecked.

This is mostly achieved through experience, but reading up heatmaps on vBAddict, and running some training rooms can give you some assistance in finding cheeky positions that can help out in taking out usual hotpots.

The easiest way for this would be running platoons with people off the same skill-level, or unicums if you know of any, and take use of voice-communications.

Be tacticool, and use the minimap as much as possible (but not too much, you gotta fire your gun too....)

:ph34r:

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Ok understandable, but how do you try to work games like that.

 

1. Find positions that capitalizes on the eventual death of your potato teammates. 

2. Punish the enemies that your potatoes reveal. 

3. Ensure you have a options for withdrawal and redeployment to another potato.

4. Write-off teammates who are nonredeemable.

5. Save your HP for end-game.

 

In the perfect case, the reds will attack one by one, and your team gets a positive return for tanks lost.  In the imperfect case, you set yourself up for crucial contribution on a loss.

 

EDIT:

 

One last thing.  On the daily basis, don't look at your win rate.  Look only at damage, kills, and WNx scores.  If you are playing like shit, you will see it within ~5 games.  If you are pulling 2k+ WN scores every battle, and still losing, write it off as bad luck.

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Only problem is those 40 percent days make me want to uninstall this freaking game.  Have never really been in it for the stats type of guy, I more just want to win and I will take a bad win over a good loss any day of the week.  Trying to get in the mindset that I will just try to have fun on the bad days and all that nonsense but it isn't working very well.  Just wondering what some other players do for those days.

At a certain point you also have to know when to walk away. :)

 

Sometimes, especially after a long losing streak at the end of a long play session, a walk around the block can do wonders for your psyche.  Some people talk about calling it quits after 3 straight losses or whatever.  I don't have such a hard-and-fast rule, but when I start to feel like I'm doing poorly, it's usually because I am.  Turning off the game for a few minutes to get some fresh air, play something else, or just surf the net, can be enough to break a streak.

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Had a game on Westfield in my T-62A or Obj 140, where I was constantly firing as fast as I could reload and just could not drop enemy tanks faster than my team is dying. Ended up just short of 6k damage and half of the enemy team chasing me down...

For games where you can see that your team is significantly worse than other team, I actually try high risk high reward moves - aggressive spotting, claiming key spots (watch out for zero support tho). Because time is simply not on your side and you're not going to win a drawn out fight. A team of full greens is going to out peek, out HP trade and out spot your team of oranges and red, it's just a matter of time. You're not going to have time to take it cautiously and win your flank then help the other side. Chances are, both flanks will fall at the same time. It's drastic moves that do or cause huge damage to start with or just accept the loss.

There are exceptions of course, where a worse team will have a good chance of winning if they got the right tank comp on the right map. One I can think of is heavies and TDs on Hidden Village.

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Had a game on Westfield in my T-62A or Obj 140, where I was constantly firing as fast as I could reload and just could not drop enemy tanks faster than my team is dying. Ended up just short of 6k damage and half of the enemy team chasing me down...

 

 

Yeah, I was with you that game, in my E-100. I put out 3.5K damage and absorbed almost 10K, and was swarmed just before you were. Heck, we had 2 tanks dead before I got into position...

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So what is best thing to do when it's evident that all will end in tears? (i.e. 30ish %  win prediction with wtf e 100 drowning under minute after game starts)

 

My plan for those rainy days is to  stay 200+ behind potato group, or as far possible in draw range, and make as much damage i can, depending on map/how stronk tonk i haz i either stick to one position or try to retreat. I rarely manage to retreat though as i do not have enough skill yet..

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 (i.e. 30ish %  win prediction with wtf e 100 drowning under minute after game starts)

 

That means there is a 30% chance the enemy team will fail epicly. 

 

Play it out to the end, regardless what that ending is.

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I would not focus on the games where your team is terrible and gets rolled 15-4.  Even the best players are unlikely to swing some of those matches (platoon dependent).  This does NOT mean explain away any loss as "was going to lose it anyway", but from an improvement standpoint you want to have manageable steps rather than trying to make a huge leap.

 

The difference between 58% and 65% is not about the 35% games that you lose either way, it's about the 7% that you lose but could be winning.  Focus on those games that are fairly close (15-10 or 15-8 range) and look at how your play could have taken out an additional tank or two, kept an ally alive for longer, or done anything else to help swing the tide.

 

Don't fall into the trap of looking at your damage/kills and blaming your team for the failure - it's pretty damn easy to got a couple kills and 2k damage at the end of a loss.  Focus on those games, watch those replays, and think about whether you were mixing it up too early (losing hp and/or dying) or too late (letting your team die while you have limited shots).

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That means there is a 30% chance the enemy team will fail epicly. 

 

Play it out to the end, regardless what that ending is.

 

I always do, i even tend to be more caotious and play overall better when wn prediction is very bad.

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I would not focus on the games where your team is terrible and gets rolled 15-4.  Even the best players are unlikely to swing some of those matches (platoon dependent).  This does NOT mean explain away any loss as "was going to lose it anyway", but from an improvement standpoint you want to have manageable steps rather than trying to make a huge leap.

 

The difference between 58% and 65% is not about the 35% games that you lose either way, it's about the 7% that you lose but could be winning.  Focus on those games that are fairly close (15-10 or 15-8 range) and look at how your play could have taken out an additional tank or two, kept an ally alive for longer, or done anything else to help swing the tide.

 

Don't fall into the trap of looking at your damage/kills and blaming your team for the failure - it's pretty damn easy to got a couple kills and 2k damage at the end of a loss.  Focus on those games, watch those replays, and think about whether you were mixing it up too early (losing hp and/or dying) or too late (letting your team die while you have limited shots).

 

THIS.

 

There are plenty of games you will lose because your teams suck. BUT I try to look at what I did and how I screwed things up. Did I concede map/vision/position control? Was my gun out of the fight too long? Did I not influence the fight enough?

 

Perhaps even by being perfectly positioned with excellent vision and being heavily involved in the fight would not have won that particular game, but it will more games in the long run.

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I would not focus on the games where your team is terrible and gets rolled 15-4.  Even the best players are unlikely to swing some of those matches (platoon dependent).  This does NOT mean explain away any loss as "was going to lose it anyway", but from an improvement standpoint you want to have manageable steps rather than trying to make a huge leap.

 

The difference between 58% and 65% is not about the 35% games that you lose either way, it's about the 7% that you lose but could be winning.  Focus on those games that are fairly close (15-10 or 15-8 range) and look at how your play could have taken out an additional tank or two, kept an ally alive for longer, or done anything else to help swing the tide.

 

Don't fall into the trap of looking at your damage/kills and blaming your team for the failure - it's pretty damn easy to got a couple kills and 2k damage at the end of a loss.  Focus on those games, watch those replays, and think about whether you were mixing it up too early (losing hp and/or dying) or too late (letting your team die while you have limited shots).

 

What bugs me most is  amount of games that is lost because of me. I see something bad happen on other flank, often rush to counter and die like potato. I see friendly big td circled and i get oneshotted by enemy td in the bush while rushing to help brainlessly . I deal 2-3 k damage and 3k spotting in first 3-4 mins then rush like moron to kill 15 hp Jagdpanther2 and die, without even hitting him...

 

I would say less than 10%games i lose is because of rng, team, conspiracy, whatever. Sadly, i can track  90% or more, if not all of my losses to point where teams were even or we had slight advantage and then i happened with some bright idea, and my team is one tank short while i ask myself wtf man?

 

On those occasions when everything comes down in seconds from disaster manner i often ask myself would better player turned this around? Because  for most of my losses i know for sure not even unicum was needed for victory, just bluish normal person and my team would have one tank more and probably would win.

 

That's why my number one priority from now on is survive first opening minutes..

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Had a game on Westfield in my T-62A or Obj 140, where I was constantly firing as fast as I could reload and just could not drop enemy tanks faster than my team is dying. Ended up just short of 6k damage and half of the enemy team chasing me down...

 

All of my RIP's

 

http://wotreplays.com/site/695693#self

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The easy answer is you can't usually turn games around when your in a blue boat floating in a sea of red.  Normally, the area you cover is ok & the rest of the battlefield just vaporizes b4 you can do anyting about it. 

 

The worst thing you can do is attempt to cross over dangerous ground & help hold the failing flank.  I just reviewed my past 50 games & most of my WN8 under 300 are just that, trying to save a flank that is going down no matter what.  I normally either get there just in time to get swarmed or die trying to get over to that flank,  If my team has any good players, I normally attempt to stay in the same area as that player.  It is more likely that you can turn a failed game around if 2 decent players are alive during end game.

 

My WN8 for the last 12 hours was 1975 (which is good for me) & a win rate of 46.9%.  I've actually seen my win rate slide for the last 2 weeks as my WN8 goes up.  Often these are battles which I am forced to tier up 2.  I can usually get some good damage numbers but, I really have no bearing on the game outcome.  A tier 8 posting a good WN8 blue score suppporting properly just can't do the damage required to really influence the game. 

 

When I'm face with a situation where the entire team is full of deep red window lickers, I just try to position myself where I can attempt to maximize my damage as my team gets vaporized.  This forces me to play more agressive than normal & have a retreat plan ready.  Also, I plan an Alamo position to make my last stand once the entire team fails.  I also really try to conserve hit points.  Having 80% of your hit points against a bunch of damaged tanks can really change the endgame.  Of course if the reds don't do any damage, I'm usually screwed.

During these types of games, maximize your damage and farm WN8, once in a while you get lucky & pull out a win in these games.  More often you will manage to pull out a 6837 WN8 game with 5 kills & lose because of a shitty luck damage role (1 of my games this morning).  What sucks is I left the game with my team up 4-2 with 1 enemy tank with 7 hp left (shitty damage role, thanks alot) & the other around 200 hit points (tier 5 game).  Of course, the 4 tanks on my side couldn't have scored in a whore house with a fist full of dollars so, my bad. 

 

I'm not a unicum by any mesurement so, I don't know what they do to turn these games around.  I suspect they attempt the same tactics I use but, are just better at these tactics. 

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So what is best thing to do when it's evident that all will end in tears? (i.e. 30ish %  win prediction with wtf e 100 drowning under minute after game starts)

 

My plan for those rainy days is to  stay 200+ behind potato group, or as far possible in draw range, and make as much damage i can, depending on map/how stronk tonk i haz i either stick to one position or try to retreat. I rarely manage to retreat though as i do not have enough skill yet..

Don't ever change how you play based on XVM's chance to win formula; if anything a low chance to win game warrants high risk, high reward play if you're at a stage in the game where you think your team is at the tipping point of definitely losing.

 

It's the same in any competitive endeavor, if you let the reputation of your opponent get to your head, you're already halfway to losing.

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One last thing.  On the daily basis, don't look at your win rate.  Look only at damage, kills, and WNx scores.  If you are playing like shit, you will see it within ~5 games.  If you are pulling 2k+ WN scores every battle, and still losing, write it off as bad luck.

 

This is a good point I have not thought about previously, thanks.

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Occasionally I will suggest to the team that they all derp one direction (preferably the one i think will they will have the most success) and our platoon will hold the other direction and prevent cap or push quickly with team and run back to cap.

 

Part of the time I get told "STFU kid, xvm hax" and sometimes it works...

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