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I was watching Anfield's stream today, and a pretty hefty discussion arose surrounding esports and 7/42.  Anfield talked about how he wished they would do 7/42 in tier ten tanks.  I'm inclined to agree - if you banned premium ammunition, it would be interesting to see what types of tanks teams would bring.

 

Some people thought tier ten isn't balanced enough, others thought it would be too campy.  Others argued that tier tens would be even more durable due to no sprem, and therefore would be more inclined to push - therefore resulting in more brawly, intense engagements which would look really good on an entertainment perspective.

 

I even suggested tier 9 7/42 - some thought that was an interesting idea as well.  All in all, a general consensus was formed that tier 8 esports would be getting old soon, the tanks themselves are too fragile for exciting engagements, and that mixing things up a bit would not only facilitate better play on the teams' parts, but would add better entertainment value on Wargaming's end.

 

If there's one thing that stimulates Minsk nowadays, it's "how can we milk esports?"

 

***disclaimer - I searched for this topic already, couldn't find anything, although this thread has probably already happened.  pls merge if necessary***

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Not at all involved in 7/42, so this may be a noob question : Are sprem rounds banned, or limited, in 7/42?

 

If not, then prehaps they should try that first. If they are then why would it work better at tier 10. Personally I would like to see a loadout limit on sprem rounds for most game modes.

 

edit : gramer how does it work?

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4 Waffles=Win. There would be balance issues.

 

 

Why would you think that? It might be viable, but that would be like saying 4x 50 100s would be win at tier 8.  In CW, waffles are dangerous, but they need support.

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Not at all involved in 7/42, so this may be a noob question : Are sprem rounds banned, or limited, in 7/42?

 

Nope and nope, you can load as much as you want

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You mean 7/52? Hue.

 

We've seen major tier 10 tournies with similar numbers of tanks, and the higher power of the guns leads to an even campier style of play.  Camp with T57s etc, and in general whoever shoots first wins.

 

Tier 8 is more balanced.  Tier 10 doesn't introduce much more variety in tank type selection.

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4 Waffles=Win. There would be balance issues.

 

 

Disagree.  They'd be smashed on any open map, as they are impossible to hide.

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Sprem ammo wouldn't be removed or even limited. Also, I think you're looking for the classic season format but I still like the idea. (I Believe classic is as many players as you want any tier 90 points but I may be wrong)

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without gold it would work really good on tier 9, and perhaps on tier 10

 

tier 8 is just fail, unless they increase team size and remove gold....

 

How is it a fail?  And armor hardly ever matters against same tier opponents who can aim anyway... gold ammo doesn't make that much of a difference.

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Try find Barrooms stream/video of the 7/70 Ruinberg tournament, it was pretty horrible in terms of camping. 

7/42 needs low-tier artillery to return to pre-nerf levels to improve fluid gameplay IMO, the STPZII, Bison (and the GWP/lorraine) not only made lineups more diverse (t71s, chaffees, t2lts etc) but gameplay, especially on open maps was far, far more movement based - I'm thinking of steppes especially - a map which was banned by almost all teams in WGL finals due to how stagnant gameplay is there now.(in addition, the SouthWest ruinberg camp would be impossible with a bison/stpzii in the team)

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How is it a fail?  And armor hardly ever matters against same tier opponents who can aim anyway... gold ammo doesn't make that much of a difference.

 

tier 8 is just boring with so little tanks

 

relative to armor, gold ammo is even more OP here as on tier 10, trow in huge autoloader clips, and extremly limited tank set-ups, and all in all its just incredible boring...

 

both to play and watch....

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You mean 7/52? Hue.

 

We've seen major tier 10 tournies with similar numbers of tanks, and the higher power of the guns leads to an even campier style of play.  Camp with T57s etc, and in general whoever shoots first wins.

 

Tier 8 is more balanced.  Tier 10 doesn't introduce much more variety in tank type selection.

Yeah, that's what I meant XD

 

That's why Anfield proposed the limit on premium ammunition, that way it balances it out somewhat.  But really, I think that idea (that you argued against) is really open for debate.

 

WOULD it be too campy?  WOULD teams have a hard time breaking defenses, and forcing their enemies to react?  I don't know that I can answer yes or no to those.

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It's hard to watch these for me because I always feel like having the tier 1 tanks in there makes a mockery of the game. Yeah yeah, I've heard all the excuses so spare me. I'm just saying it will be hard to take it seriously until they put some tier limits on it and probably expand the number of tanks. The way it is now it is basically a five on five with a couple 5 pixel pee-wee tanks that can put cap pressure on. Occasionally they get some flank shot and pen something but who cares. Is there any other E-sport or real sport where they put in mismatches like those? Would anyone watch the NFL if the championship games where 5 on 5 with two junior league players on each team?

 

Make some real match-ups and can really show off the skill of the players on a broader more realistic scale where flank movements mean more. I'd like to see them play things like Steppes more and other open maps so we can see a broader range of skills. Bring in some mobile tanks for spotting and flanking purposes rather than just lining up some firepower and hope they turn a corner fast enough to pound someone.

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It wouldn't be 7/42 then would it. But I also said implement a ban system to add a further dynamic (this should be already added with 7/42). And I suggested a ban on Tank Destroyers, as I believe heavy/medium is the best balanced.

 

5/50 (so no tier 1's, seriously I get why they are used but if I were interested in tanks and started by watching e-sport, as I did with dota 2, I would be like wtf), also 5 players is easier to manage than 7 (not to mention dropping 2 players, unless you keep them to have a large reserve, would open up more teams).

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tier 8 is just boring with so little tanks

 

relative to armor, gold ammo is even more OP here as on tier 10, trow in huge autoloader clips, and extremly limited tank set-ups, and all in all its just incredible boring...

 

both to play and watch....

 

Gold ammo more OP at tier 8? the opposite is true.  At tier 10, you NEED gold ammo to go through the turret of an e100 or the upper plate of something.  Gold allows you to pen shots you otherwise wouldn't.  At tier 8, what are your most heavily armored tanks?  Is3, 110, T32.  Against IS3s, there is literally no difference between shooting them with AP or APCR.  110s maybe in a few unusual stituations.  T32s can't be penned though the turret even with prem.  Removing gold ammo would not change gameplay at all, and you'd barely notice any increase in bounces.

 

Variety in tank set-ups?

 

Tier 8: is3, amx 50, amx 13, T69, T32, Pershing, 416, STA1, 110, WZ132

Tier 10:  E100, T57, BC25t, T62a/140, 50b, Leo... and what? IS7, E3, stb?  A few more niche tanks, but about the same number of bread and butter tanks.

 

Yeah, that's what I meant XD

 

That's why Anfield proposed the limit on premium ammunition, that way it balances it out somewhat.  But really, I think that idea (that you argued against) is really open for debate.

 

WOULD it be too campy?  WOULD teams have a hard time breaking defenses, and forcing their enemies to react?  I don't know that I can answer yes or no to those.

 

It is too campy because tier 10 guns have low aim time, good accuracy, and high alpha/dpm/pen relative to hp.  Exposing yourself to enemy fire is far more punishing, thereby encouraging camping.  You make one wrong move, you're dead.

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On 4/7/2014 at 3:48 PM, Anfield said:

It wouldn't be 7/42 then would it.

 

Jesus H. Christ.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NP8y63Ms4o

 

I can't change the title *meh*

 

No really, I feel like a fool, it obviously WOULDN'T be 7/42, but you guys get the idea.  The only reason I used the term is because I'm offering a replacement idea/critique of it, and it's more recognizable to the eye.

 

Tier 9 tho, yo.

 

T-54s, E-75s, M103s, *gasps*  MAYBE EVEN T54E1's!!!

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Was watching the stream too. Thought he had a lot of good points not just about the mechanics of it all but about the 'awesomeness factor' of tier 10s versus the 8's, and how we don't even see the iconic 8's like Tiger's as it is now because they simply aren't used.

 

Can only speak for myself, but I don't give two shits about tier 8 tournament tanks. I'd rather watch CW videos all day than a single 7/42 video because I just don't care about the weird ass e-sports setup they have that uses tanks that aren't even the 'endgame' for WoT.

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Was watching the stream too. Thought he had a lot of good points not just about the mechanics of it all but about the 'awesomeness factor' of tier 10s versus the 8's, and how we don't even see the iconic 8's like Tiger's as it is now because they simply aren't used.

 

Can only speak for myself, but I don't give two shits about tier 8 tournament tanks. I'd rather watch CW videos all day than a single 7/42 video because I just don't care about the weird ass e-sports setup they have that uses tanks that aren't even the 'endgame' for WoT.

 

The "iconic Tiger" is just a sub-par tank in general, that's not a tournament issue.

 

It's cool that you like cw, but your preference is completely arbitrary. The "awesomeness" factor of tier tens is just going to lead to campier gameplay in high level tourney play, as i argued above.  

 

R.E. Anfield, I agree that the tier 1s are odd, but if you remove them, teams are forced to camp harder with less map information.  For new viewers, 5 tanks just sitting there camping is going to be a much bigger turn-off.

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The "iconic Tiger" is just a sub-par tank in general, that's not a tournament issue.

 

It's cool that you like cw, but your preference is completely arbitrary. The "awesomeness" factor of tier tens is just going to lead to campier gameplay in high level tourney play, as i argued above.  

 

R.E. Anfield, I agree that the tier 1s are odd, but if you remove them, teams are forced to camp harder with less map information.  For new viewers, 5 tanks just sitting there camping is going to be a much bigger turn-off.

Yeah, he knows.  The point he was trying to make is that the average joe watching esports for the first time might get more intrigued with the game if he saw competitive play with the iconic king tiger.  Which....like you said....doesn't happen.

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Right, but the only way to facilitate that part of peoples' enjoyment is by buffing the king tiger substantially so that it has a role in a tier 8 tournament.  None of the best tier 9s or tens are iconic either, so changing the tiers and points of tournies wouldn't address this issue.  

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Gold ammo more OP at tier 8? the opposite is true.  At tier 10, you NEED gold ammo to go through the turret of an e100 or the upper plate of something.  Gold allows you to pen shots you otherwise wouldn't.  At tier 8, what are your most heavily armored tanks?  Is3, 110, T32.  Against IS3s, there is literally no difference between shooting them with AP or APCR.  110s maybe in a few unusual stituations.  T32s can't be penned though the turret even with prem.  Removing gold ammo would not change gameplay at all, and you'd barely notice any increase in bounces.

 

Variety in tank set-ups?

 

Tier 8: is3, amx 50, amx 13, T69, T32, Pershing, 416, STA1, 110, WZ132

Tier 10:  E100, T57, BC25t, T62a/140, 50b, Leo... and what? IS7, E3, stb?  A few more niche tanks, but about the same number of bread and butter tanks.

 

Thus gold ammo on tier 10 is LESS OP as on tier 8, on tier 8 its brutal overkill removing ANY kind of armor, on tier 10 WITHOUT gold ammo on the other hand, it would be interesting.

 

no gold ammo makes a whole bunch of tank all of a suddern very interesting, IS7 and MAUS would be viable, TDs would be usefull (Jp-E100 for example is a pain to fight without gold ammo) and so on, arty would be more usefull here aswell (depending on total tank number)

 

and by adding a proper numbers, like 10/98, you would ``force`` teams to either use 2 tier 9 tanks (T95 on some maps, perhaps 2x T54 for scout or 2x arty) or use 1 real scout or a tier 8 arty)

Tier 9 tho, yo.

 

T-54s, E-75s, M103s, *gasps*  MAYBE EVEN T54E1's!!!

 

without gold almost all tier 9 would have a place, WTF p4 and JT would be viable tanks, so would T95 and T30, T54 and cent mk7 would also be usefull i think, same E75, ST-1 and M103 will have a place... (and amx-120 and T54e1 perhaps)

 

without gold ammo tier 9 is the second best balanced tier, and thus the most suited tier for tournament

 

tier 8 gets ruined by autoloaders and gold ammo, also due to autoloaders and huge alpha dmg of IS3, the game is heavy alpha dmg centered, even more as tier 10...

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Aside from the arbitrariness of using t8 tanks, I'd rather them use assault style game modes; perhaps with two cap zones, a' la counterstrike. At least it would force teams to play offensively. I didn't even bother watching the grand finals because the team that got an early lead would just hard camp. 

 

They should also get rid of T1s and replace them with traditional scout tanks like the Chaffee/Leopard or T71/1390 if using tier 10 tanks. At least they'd be able to effect the game by flanking and not just passive scouting or capping.

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