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Xelos

Armor and reducing damage

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I've always wondered why armor doesn't reduce some of the damage even if the tank is penetrated.

 

Perhaps some formula where a percentage of the damage is reduced based upon how much the armor is pen'd by.

 

This would make armor a bit more advantageous for tanks that have too low values to bounce but enough where under this system it would be a nice benefit.

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No, because when a shell penetrates, spalling (shards of steel that break and fly off of the plate penetrated...) is what causes part of that damage. And most shells that penetrate have a timed fuse.

 

At least thats what I understand of WW2 shell/armor technology. Someone more experienced could tell you exactly why.

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Like Fire_Hive said.

 

When the shell penetrates x mm of armor, the shell weakens a lot. It is only held together by the inside walls of the armor it is going through. When the shell suddenly switches mediums again to air it fragments and all of a sudden you have thousands of sharp metal peices moving every direction at a very fast pace.

 

As for HEAT rounds pretty much the same thing. As the copper cone slices through the armor it's held together by internal integrity. The instant it switches mediums to the air of the tank it splatters followed by a massive pressure wave.

 

For HE rounds it spalls the inside of the tanks armor. Which basically means when it contacts the outside of the tanks hull it explodes sending a pressure wave which when the wave hits the opposing side of armor and the wave reflects the armor on the inside cracks and goes flying towards the crew as shrapnel. 

 

 

Edit 1: It might be a cool mechanic but that would pretty much make armor heavy tanks fucking un-killable. 

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That's what HP is for. No need to complicate it further. And there are ways to utilize armor that is too low with angling etc. If you'd go through with your change you'd make APCR even more pay to win and it would fuck everything up.

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So the argument why armor is pointless vs nonHE pens has to do with realism then. The realism parts of this game are some of the worst holdovers.

 

 

That's what HP is for. No need to complicate it further. And there are ways to utilize armor that is too low with angling etc. If you'd go through with your change you'd make APCR even more pay to win and it would fuck everything up.

 

I just prefer quantitative balancing versus their bullshit qualitative picking and choosing. This way they'd be able to standardize all the tank HP to Type and Tier. I feel like currently for each tank you want to be minimax'd, you either want lots of armor (or lots in a specific point) or none at all (fuck side and rear armor unless you have a ton like maus).

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The relationship is probably inverse to what is proposed by the OP. Imagine firing a large tank gun at the canvas or sheet steel cover of a lorry - completely unarmoured. Aside from the unlucky things in the truck hit directly by the shell, all you'd get is a couple of neat viewing holes in the sides.

 

Now fire it at a hardened and angled glacis plate of a tank. The shell chrushes and deforms with the steel armour as it struggles through, expelling chunks of red hot steel at similar velocities to the shell itself. Anything soft is shredded. Fires start. The burst charge (if applicable) explodes. The air pressure inside the tank soars to un-survivable levels. What is left of the shell penetrates the length of the vehicle until it hits something hard and is stopped (with more of the same result) or ricochets off the armour surfaces causing more havoc.

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Please no. This would only add lots of rng to the game.

Now with ap if you hit a weakspot you generally get what you wanted. The alpha amount of damage +-25%. With this suggestion there is just additional level of rng introduced. Hitting a weakspot would mean you get two rng calculations for damage + the rng calculation for pen + rng calculation for accuracy instead of one rng calculation for each. If shell pen would also affect damage then it is very likely pen rng would affect it as well. But even if the system used static number for the pen lottery your accuracy rng would also affect your damage. When shooting at lower plates for example it would mean that if your shots goes low (bad accuracy rng) you do less damage than if the shot goes higher in the lfp because angles and trigonometry.

And let's not even mention at all how fucking op sprem would become. Lol I has 450 pen I do 1,5x damage every time I pen you.

I say go the other way. Remove the shell penetration and damage lottery altogether. Make it that 200 pen 240 gun does that every time it fires. Make he ammo have 0 pen and remove stupid hesh (high pen he) ammo from the game.

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Please no. This would only add lots of rng to the game.

Now with ap if you hit a weakspot you generally get what you wanted. The alpha amount of damage +-25%. With this suggestion there is just additional level of rng introduced. Hitting a weakspot would mean you get two rng calculations for damage + the rng calculation for pen + rng calculation for accuracy instead of one rng calculation for each. If shell pen would also affect damage then it is very likely pen rng would affect it as well. But even if the system used static number for the pen lottery your accuracy rng would also affect your damage. When shooting at lower plates for example it would mean that if your shots goes low (bad accuracy rng) you do less damage than if the shot goes higher in the lfp because angles and trigonometry.

And let's not even mention at all how fucking op sprem would become. Lol I has 450 pen I do 1,5x damage every time I pen you.

I say go the other way. Remove the shell penetration and damage lottery altogether. Make it that 200 pen 240 gun does that every time it fires. Make he ammo have 0 pen and remove stupid hesh (high pen he) ammo from the game.

 

I was thinking you can't do more than the actual damage roll, but that the damage roll is reduced by some percentage based upon the difference by how much you penn'd the target by. For example, a batchat penning the frontal turret of maus wouldn't do much damage because it wouldn't be penning the maus by very much. Though a batchat penning a WTE100 would do nearly 100% every shot, likewise even penning a target like 268 would do a bit of reduced damage due to 187 frontal armor.

 

I do see the problem with idea in that heavily armored tanks would be extremely hard to kill frontally. I really just don't like the all or none idea of armor.

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As far as armor reducing damage, no thats what HP are for.

 

I've mentioned this before, but there are differences in armor quality.  Whether WG takes this into consideration with more/less HP, I am unsure.

 

I don't recall the mm of front turret armor on a Leopard I, but that tank uses rolled homogeneous steel.  If you took say 60 mm of RHS armor on a turret built in 1960 and compared it to a cast turret or one made from welded or bolted plates of the same thickness made in 1941, the the RHS offers more protection from penetration ... say the same effective protection as 80 mm of the latter two types I mentioned (I don't have exact figures but you get the idea).  Thats something WG needs to account for.

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