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Wargaming Offers You a Job as Executive Producer

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People's reaction here to 9.0 brought this thread to mind. There is some disappointment with Wargaming's priorities. I agree, but this implies we have ideas as to what better priorities would be. In that case:

 

You're going about your normal day, doing whatever it is you do, and your phone rings. It's not SerB, he's too busy making tanks out of $100 US bills and lighting them on fire to call, but it's a group of powerful decision makers. They've examined your gameplay. They've read your posts here and on their official forums. They've decided you're the man/woman to take WoT into the future and want to give you the reins of World of Tanks. The money is great, you're allowed to work from home, no relocation required, and you're paid 5 years salary up front. You just can't refuse, so you accept.

 

What are your first five steps? How do you change World of Tanks for the better? To get the ball rolling, for me it would be....

  1. Suspend all engine work that is not critical or fixing bugs introduced with the most recent update. HD remodeling is fine, that's a different team, but no Havok/lighting updates or anything else that is unnecessary and would conflict with other work that needs completed
  2. Good-bye artillery. The announcement is made immediately but the actual removal is planned for a release three months into the future. Once it's released:
    1. All players are given their experience points back + a 5% bonus amount of experience as free experience as a gesture of good will towards those who feel the loss the hardest
    2. All players are refunded the full purchase price of all artillery they currently own, the equipment, modules, consumables and ammunition that they carry
    3. All players are given 200 gold for every crew member trained to use artillery that have at least 1 fully trained skill/perk
  3. Assign all vehicle gameplay designers to tank balance. Work with customer service to gather twenty of the best and most active players of the game to participate in closed, private forums in the balancing of all tanks from tiers 1-10. Priority give first to tier 10, then tier 9, then tier 8, until complete. The goal given would be to have a smooth flow from tier 1-10 in terms of tank power per line. In terms of across tier balance, the given goal would be that while it's fine if some tanks are considered better than others, all tanks must be seen as useful. Tweak in small steps, not major overhauls, until you land on something that feels right. This would be where the alpha and burst of several of the TDs are adjusted. If the twenty expert players work out well, ask them each to recommend another player. Add those twenty. Expand until you have a reliable group of around 200
  4. From Deusmortis: "Develop an end-game option outside of clan wars.  New game type would require a tier 10 tank.  Goal is to limit outside factors as much as possible, and establish a true skill based game mode.  Ammo loadouts cannot exceed 10% premium.  Limited to 10v10.  Platoons not allowed.  Game mode only open between certain times on each server, in order to compress all who wish to play and quicken matchmaking.  Players are rated individually within this game mode, establishing a ranking system similar to Elo.  Game mode provides NO experience or credits.  These must still be earned in random battles.  Game mode provides payment in the form of gold, or another unique currency."
  5. Introduce Elo ratings system, using it at first only to measure Elo rating and perfect the Elo rating system. Do not yet introduce an Elo based matchmaker. Let this go until you're satisfied with Elo results. Afterwards, develop proximity based Elo match-maker. Will not go into all details here, but happy to elsewhere. The short of it: It does its best to group the players in any given queue together such that there is as small a disparity in skill level as possible. Test the system over the course of two patches on CT, rolling it out with a rollback option ready and waiting should it have unexpected negative effects

I stuck with 5, so I didn't make it to maps or capping TDs at 6 per team. Anyone else?

 

Deusmortis had a great item I failed to make room for. I bumped my original #4 to make room for this: (see )

 

2.  Develop an end-game option outside of clan wars.  New game type would require a tier 10 tank.  Goal is to limit outside factors as much as possible, and establish a true skill based game mode.  Ammo loadouts cannot exceed 10% premium.  Limited to 10v10.  Platoons not allowed.  Game mode only open between certain times on each server, in order to compress all who wish to play and quicken matchmaking.  Players are rated individually within this game mode, establishing a ranking system similar to Elo.  Game mode provides NO experience or credits.  These must still be earned in random battles.  Game mode provides payment in the form of gold, or another unique currency. 

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How about this.

 

1. Organize missions to be balanced for all levels of play

 

2. Fill out Asian tank lines

 

3. test methods for "nerfing" arty so that they can still be played..... but some harsh stipulations. (maybe no low tier arty?)

 

4.Clean the forum bugs

 

5. institute random drug testing  :verysmug:

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I disagree pretty much with just number 4... and perhaps a bit of the compensation methods for Arty players, although they're decent enough.  A full refund and free crew retrain seems enough to me, no need to add a bonus to the XP... especially when that would amount to quite a bit.  As for number 4, I actually think tier 8+ credit earning is fine.  You can easily break even with skill and no premium, and make credits when you do run premium.  The game has to have a monetization scheme, after all, if it is to actually succeed, and that is its primary money-maker.

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I would make the game focus on optimizing the game: multi-core, code optimized better, bug fixes.

Balancing tanks in every tier would be 2nd priority, with arty changes that actually make them area effect rather than accurate onagers (Medieval catapult)

Capping arty to 3 per team and TDs to 5 per team would also be added 

 

 

You don't want skill based MM, it does not do what you think..

 

I'd rather have a skill-cap to get past tier 7, like 900Wn8/49% WR or something near that, let the worse players learn mechanics in lower tiers before progressing farther.

But thats just a alternative

 

and those arty compensations would be horrible, you'd have more bots in tier 10 than you could count since they get all that free XP back, literally if you ground out 3 lines of arty to tier 10, you'd be getting ~3mil free XP and thousands of gold.

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Read the thread title, was expecting a choose your own adventure story, was disappointed.

 

But in all seriousness, what the OP said (plus bigger maps, buff to vehicle hit points across the board so you don't die the second you try to do anything, various nerfs to TDs, overhaul CW mechanics, etc.).

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I disagree pretty much with just number 4... and perhaps a bit of the compensation methods for Arty players, although they're decent enough.  A full refund and free crew retrain seems enough to me, no need to add a bonus to the XP... especially when that would amount to quite a bit.  As for number 4, I actually think tier 8+ credit earning is fine.  You can easily break even with skill and no premium, and make credits when you do run premium.  The game has to have a monetization scheme, after all, if it is to actually succeed, and that is its primary money-maker.

 

Some tanks this is more true than others. Some tanks are actually pretty much break even with premium if your'e pushing for full performance. Not looking for a major overhaul, just tweaks where necessary to make sure that good play can make a small profit at tier 10 even when going try-hard. 

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I would make the game focus on optimizing the game: multi-core, code optimized better, bug fixes.

Balancing tanks in every tier would be 2nd priority, with arty changes that actually make them area effect rather than accurate onagers (Medieval catapult)

Capping arty to 3 per team and TDs to 5 per team would also be added 

 

 

You don't want skill based MM, it does not do what you think..

 

I'd rather have a skill-cap to get past tier 7, like 900Wn8/49% WR or something near that, let the worse players learn mechanics in lower tiers before progressing farther.

But thats just a alternative

 

and those arty compensations would be horrible, you'd have more bots in tier 10 than you could count since they get all that free XP back, literally if you ground out 3 lines of arty to tier 10, you'd be getting ~3mil free XP and thousands of gold.

 

Skill based MM that I'm referencing not be the same kind your'e thinking of. I'm familiar with them from a few perspectives (building/using). Another thread is better suited to that (there's one that got seriously derailed in Core Mechanics, but it has a link on an earlier page to a detailed description of one I believe would work) though, I don't want to derail this. Here is the link to the full content, it's in the OP, you won't have to dig. Usual flood of retardation followed it:

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/345463-a-more-detailed-call-for-skill-based-matchmaking/

 

I'd rather have tons of terribads in tier 10 tanks until they run themselves broke on credits for a short period than have artillery at all. I think it wouldn't be fair to just take artillery from people without fair compensation, and something around that level (the bonus may be overkill as someone stated) would at least put a small cap on the damage it would do with consumer trust.

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  1. Suspend all engine work that is not critical or fixing bugs introduced with the most recent update. HD remodeling is fine, that's a different team, but no Havok/lighting updates or anything else that is unnecessary and would conflict with other work that needs completed

 

Ahahahahahahahaha. And when the bugs are fixed? Fire the developers? Honestly, do you have any idea how software development actually works? If you have a team of 30+ developers (Which WG probably does) then getting the 30+ devs to focus on 10 bugs is not a good use of time.

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Ahahahahahahahaha. And when the bugs are fixed? Fire the developers? Honestly, do you have any idea how software development actually works? If you have a team of 30+ developers (Which WG probably does) then getting the 30+ devs to focus on 10 bugs is not a good use of time.

 

Not going to derail the thread. I'll PM the response, you can decide whether or not to edit yours as a result. I want to keep this thread on topic. The short answer, yes, I'm intimately familiar with software development and game development for that matter. It's how I feed my family.

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Fuck arty, Fuck skill based matchmaker, Fuck buffing income at tier 8+. Seriously, there's enough fail to the top already with the current economy.

 

I agree with two of the four fully, one of the four partially, and not at all with the other. ;)

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Skill based matchmaker rewards baddies by either giving them better players on their team (thus punishing good players), or rewards baddies by giving them teams of baddies to fight against (thus ensuring they'll never learn anything of value).

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People's reaction here to 9.0 brought this thread to mind. There is some disappointment with Wargaming's priorities. I agree, but this implies we have ideas as to what better priorities would be. In that case:

 

You're going about your normal day, doing whatever it is you do, and your phone rings. It's not SerB, he's too busy making tanks out of $100 US bills and lighting them on fire to call, but it's a group of powerful decision makers. They've examined your gameplay. They've read your posts here and on their official forums. They've decided you're the man/woman to take WoT into the future and want to give you the reins of World of Tanks. The money is great, you're allowed to work from home, no relocation required, and you're paid 5 years salary up front. You just can't refuse, so you accept.

 

What are your first five steps? How do you change World of Tanks for the better? To get the ball rolling, for me it would be....

  1. Suspend all engine work that is not critical or fixing bugs introduced with the most recent update. HD remodeling is fine, that's a different team, but no Havok/lighting updates or anything else that is unnecessary and would conflict with other work that needs completed
  2. Good-bye artillery. The announcement is made immediately but the actual removal is planned for a release three months into the future. Once it's released:
    1. All players are given their experience points back + a 5% bonus amount of experience as free experience as a gesture of good will towards those who feel the loss the hardest
    2. All players are refunded the full purchase price of all artillery they currently own, the equipment, modules, consumables and ammunition that they carry
    3. All players are given 200 gold for every crew member trained to use artillery that have at least 1 fully trained skill/perk
  3. Assign all vehicle gameplay designers to tank balance. Work with customer service to gather twenty of the best and most active players of the game to participate in closed, private forums in the balancing of all tanks from tiers 1-10. Priority give first to tier 10, then tier 9, then tier 8, until complete. The goal given would be to have a smooth flow from tier 1-10 in terms of tank power per line. In terms of across tier balance, the given goal would be that while it's fine if some tanks are considered better than others, all tanks must be seen as useful. Tweak in small steps, not major overhauls, until you land on something that feels right. This would be where the alpha and burst of several of the TDs are adjusted. If the twenty expert players work out well, ask them each to recommend another player. Add those twenty. Expand until you have a reliable group of around 200
  4. Examine tier 8+ credit earnings, especially tier 10, to reduce "pay to remove frustration" mechanics
  5. Introduce Elo ratings system, using it at first only to measure Elo rating and perfect the Elo rating system. Do not yet introduce an Elo based matchmaker. Let this go until you're satisfied with Elo results. Afterwards, develop proximity based Elo match-maker. Will not go into all details here, but happy to elsewhere. The short of it: It does its best to group the players in any given queue together such that there is as small a disparity in skill level as possible. Test the system over the course of two patches on CT, rolling it out with a rollback option ready and waiting should it have unexpected negative effects

I stuck with 5, so I didn't make it to maps or capping TDs at 6 per team. Anyone else?

Arty should only exist in Clan Wars and TCs, so, there would be a tier 4 arty, a tier 6, a tier 8,9,10. Fuck their que times, they get MAX 2 arty per map to play. They should have their pen ability HEAVILY nerfed, BUT they're now going to have a much larger blast radius and if they do hit the tank, they may only cause 600-1500 damage (tiers 8-10) but there is increased likelyhood of heavy module damage. ROF would be buffed, but aim area is horrible. 

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Skill based matchmaker rewards baddies by either giving them better players on their team (thus punishing good players), or rewards baddies by giving them teams of baddies to fight against (thus ensuring they'll never learn anything of value).

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/345463-a-more-detailed-call-for-skill-based-matchmaking/

 

I don't want to derail this thread. If you're curious as to why that wouldn't be the case, check out that post. Little bit of a long read, but it explains it.

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1.  Artillery overhaul.  Design and implement a new type of ammunition specific to artillery.  This ammo type cannot, under any circumstances, penetrate armor.  In most other ways, it is identical to HE.  It will still do more damage to light armor than heavy, but one shots on full health tanks should be a thing of the past.  Firing an SPG will highlight the grid square within which the shot originated.  Alpha reduced across the board, in tandem with balancing the new ammo type.  Shots on areas that are not currently being viewed by a friendly tank suffer an accuracy penalty.  Multiple shots within a small area (within the gun traverse, most likely) will each gain an accuracy bonus, representing firing corrections.  Splash decreased on most vehicles.  ROF increased. 

 

2.  Develop an end-game option outside of clan wars.  New game type would require a tier 10 tank.  Goal is to limit outside factors as much as possible, and establish a true skill based game mode.  Ammo loadouts cannot exceed 10% premium.  Limited to 10v10.  Platoons not allowed.  Game mode only open between certain times on each server, in order to compress all who wish to play and quicken matchmaking.  Players are rated individually within this game mode, establishing a ranking system similar to Elo.  Game mode provides NO experience or credits.  These must still be earned in random battles.  Game mode provides payment in the form of gold, or another unique currency. 

 

3.  Encourage an incentivize skillful play in random battles.  Create more missions that reward top 5/10 xp earners.  Implement game wide ranking system, similar to WNX, visible to all.  Provide bonuses and discounts based on IN TANK ratings.  In tank ratings provide bad overall players a chance to improve and earn these discounts as they try new lines.  Bonuses could be a % increase in credit or xp earnings, or a credit discount on the next tier tank in the line.  Consider solo vs platooned values for ranking system.

 

4.  Vision and spotting system overhaul.  It should be nearly impossible to fire and stay hidden.  Remove Sixth Sense. 

 

5.  Damage system overhaul.  Reduce alpha and increase RoF on many tanks, especially at high tiers. 

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Still going to suggest we take this to a different thread, the proposals are very different, as are the goals and metrics for success.

 

Your proposal is basically to make matches more even, yes?

 

From Deusmortis, his conclusions:

 

Skill based MM has little to no effect on the average player.  The 47-49% bracket contains 41% of the player base.  Extend that out to 46-50%ers, who will see very little effect, and you now have 62.6% of the population gaining or losing almost nothing from this change.

 

Skill based MM would be immensely difficult to implement properly.  The difficulties of creating a proper metric, which can be applied to many tiers and tank classes, cannot be overstated. 

 

Skill based MM would only prevent a small number of "unwinnable" games.  Less than 15% of all games fit into the highly imbalanced category.  Of these, less than a third are blowouts.  Implementing skill based MM eliminates less than a quarter of the total blowout games we see.  Even with favorable rounding, that's only 5 games out of 100.  Out of those 5 games, 1 will be a close game, 3 will range from 3-9 tank victory margins, and 1 will still be a blowout.

 

Skill based MM unfairly punishes the good players, while unfairly helping the bads.  Good players are forced to face tougher competition and longer queue times.  AFKers and bots get to watch their win rates go up for no effort. 

 

So, when all is said and done, skill based MM is a difficult to implement system, that will not effect most players, and will not produce the desired results.  I could probably push it through Congress, but I think we can do better.

 

I have said my piece.  I have presented my arguments, and backed them with research and solid data, rather than anecdotes.  I challenge anyone in the pro-skill based MM camp to do the same.

 

Part V - Sources, data, etc.

 

NeatoMan's 2200+ game study of XVM based win chances and victory margins.  Already linked once, but deserves another:

 

http://forum.worldoftanks.com/index.php?/topic/174317-1000-games-with-xvm/

 

Breakdown of population win rates for players with 1000+ games:

 

http://i162.photobuc...bd.jpg~original

 

Original source of WR data:

 

I know wot-news hasn't been updated in a while, but a 350k+ sample is just as valid now as it was then.

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Your proposal is basically to make matches more even, yes?

 

I can't answer that, "make matches more even" can mean different things. The linked post is the best way to describe the system I can provide. The conclusions he reached were based on a very different system with different goals, and the data from Neato cannot be used to measure potential success given that one axis on which players are divided for measurement is a factor we wouldn't even care about. If you're interested in this topic and think it's worth discussion, I'd be happy to take the time to format the post over there for this forum (the tables gave me hell, so I didn't bother). Otherwise, I think it's best, to avoid derail, to just say Dues' example and what I proposed are apples and oranges. I know that it wouldn't be on the top of your priority list, but would be on mine. 

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2.  Develop an end-game option outside of clan wars.  New game type would require a tier 10 tank.  Goal is to limit outside factors as much as possible, and establish a true skill based game mode.  Ammo loadouts cannot exceed 10% premium.  Limited to 10v10.  Platoons not allowed.  Game mode only open between certain times on each server, in order to compress all who wish to play and quicken matchmaking.  Players are rated individually within this game mode, establishing a ranking system similar to Elo.  Game mode provides NO experience or credits.  These must still be earned in random battles.  Game mode provides payment in the form of gold, or another unique currency. 

 

I like this. I don't know if I'd bump something in the five I listed to get it done, but it would be #6 at the worst.

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I like this. I don't know if I'd bump something in the five I listed to get it done, but it would be #6 at the worst.

 

I think establishing a different game mode is a much better solution than trying to shoehorn our current system into some kind of skill based setup.  I'd like to see some kind of skill driven option, but I think we will always need to have random battles as the backbone of the game.  It's the means by which we gain credits and xp.  It's part of the quick play allure of the game.  An always on skill system would make the game seem far too serious.

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I think establishing a different game mode is a much better solution than trying to shoehorn our current system into some kind of skill based setup.  I'd like to see some kind of skill driven option, but I think we will always need to have random battles as the backbone of the game.  It's the means by which we gain credits and xp.  It's part of the quick play allure of the game.  An always on skill system would make the game seem far too serious.

 

I'm more interested in something that sits between the uber serious and casual for skill based MM'ing. It wouldn't be intended to place everyone into an e-sports mindset any more than WN8 and winrate does now, but it would provide scaffolding for trying to smooth out the rough edges of the play experience. For example, when I sit down for a game of Chess, I know my Elo rating is going to be affected, but I don't really care too much because I have no plans to try and sit at a tourney table. I'm just not that good or that into the game. It does though help keep me from landing into games with chess masters and also from landing into games with curious 7 year olds, neither of which would be enjoyable for me.

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I would focus on optimizing the game, honestly, WT runs on my PC at 90fps. (still gets 60 when im on the ground) and WT's graphics are far better than WoTs. Optimizing the game, and the graphics, would be top or near top priority to me. I would make sure it ran well on all PCs, if it meant going out and buying some 2 GHz Dual core PC with 2GB RAM and integrated graphics, then playing WoT on it to see if it managed at least 30fps on minimum graphics settings.

 

next I would focus on Overall tank balance. there are some really BS tanks out there. really bad and really good. Arty would get seriously looked at. and maybe not removed, but rebalanced Completely. not nerfed exactly, but made so that it took skill to use, and not just RNG. 

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I would focus on optimizing the game, honestly, WT runs on my PC at 90fps. (still gets 60 when im on the ground) and WT's graphics are far better than WoTs. Optimizing the game, and the graphics, would be top or near top priority to me. I would make sure it ran well on all PCs, if it meant going out and buying some 2 GHz Dual core PC with 2GB RAM and integrated graphics, then playing WoT on it to see if it managed at least 30fps on minimum graphics settings.

 

Honestly, I'm really not sure it's worth wasting time on optimising the game for integrated graphics.

 

The times, they are achanging. If you're trying to play WoT on a 10 year old machine then it's time to upgrade...

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