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Luna

Methods of teaching

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Across my battles in WoT I occasionally, but regularly, get asked by people how to get better. This would not be an end-all method of teaching, but I'm wondering whats the best way to guide people as to how to step up their play. aka getting a recent yellow to play like a green, green to blue, blue to purple, purple to god (<--- Me in progress).

 

I know that my play involves a large combination of brawling tactics, using pubbie meatshields to eat shells, mods/knowledge of reloads of tanks that have shot, crucial points on maps, situational awareness, and when to flex back or lead a push.

 

I know that every player is different but we all generally do the same things that set us apart from the other tiers of players. I'm just curious as to what is a good way of getting people aware of what they are doing wrong and how they can improve it.

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#1 you can't make someone learn who doesn't want to. So save your breath instead of raging at pubs - if someone PMs you, make sure you have a link or a document handy to let them read in their own time, as typing 4000+ words as an introduction to improvement in private chat just won't do.

 

With that in mind. Patience and nurturing your pubbie is by far the best way. This is also the same reason why I don't teach anyone. You'll also want to acknowledge that "teaching" a player will be a 6-month endeavour, so introducing them to a community that can bear the load will do more for them than a single player/viewpoint can. It's this accumulation of minor pieces of knowledge over a long time which makes a player improve. Arguably you don't need anyone to become a super unicum if you're self-objective enough, though.

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I'm more asking as to what is an easy way to give an area of focus for a person to have at their current skill level. Ex: at green level learning how to effectively trade/bounce shells while brawling to conserve hp and do damage, or as blue learning when to flex back and support a falling flank or when to abandon a lost one and get the hell out of there, taking as few hits as possible.

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Back when I did mentoring, I remember that looking over replays worked best.

 

a) it weeds out people that just want to platoon with a purple, so you're usually left with people who actually want to learn.

b) i find it difficult to play well myself when I'm platooning and looking at my mentee all day while trying to comment on his play.

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Back when I did mentoring, I remember that looking over replays worked best.

 

a) it weeds out people that just want to platoon with a purple, so you're usually left with people who actually want to learn.

b) i find it difficult to play well myself when I'm platooning and looking at my mentee all day while trying to comment on his play.

 

Never actually thought of it that way. I don't wanna be profiled based on my color :( 

But I suppose your b this is also true, I had 3700 wn8 running a pair of 140s with a friend over 25 battles, but I had to hardcore focus on my play and just rely on him being able to hold his own until the rest of the plebs died and it was up to us. Trying to micromanage another player while still preforming does seem a bit challenging.

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Best advice I got was a link to these forums.  If they want to learn all of the information that they would need is here.

 

I've been browsing for a few months, and I still am finding new subs every day. I feel that just saying "go to this site" will slightly overwhelm them with the amount of information that is available. The front page of the forums is pretty lengthy and can be difficult for a first timer to understand. Maybe have a "First timers go here" link to the basics of the site would be useful?

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Back when I did mentoring, I remember that looking over replays worked best.

 

a) it weeds out people that just want to platoon with a purple, so you're usually left with people who actually want to learn.

b) i find it difficult to play well myself when I'm platooning and looking at my mentee all day while trying to comment on his play.

Reviewing replays works great. I can't thank Rexxie enough for tearing me a new one when he It really helped change the way I scout and I attribute a huge bump in my solopub WZ-132 winrate to his advice.

 

 

<3 Rexxie

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for my experience I'd think you only need to give them tips in every game. But you have to let them make mistakes so he can know the consequences  of their acts. well, at least that was the learning curve that I had in this game btw I'm in my 24's, so I'm grown person that not need to carry very often. And yes, replays is one of the best tools to get better/teaching.  :doubleguns:

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I've used replays reviews and sharing guides for mentoring. The replay reviews work great to find out what the player is doing wrong, Showing the player guides gives them information to change their play style, where to find more information, and get them in contact with a bigger community.

 

I've tried some other assessment strategies though. 

For Platoons i realized I couldn't focus on driving my tank and ordering them around. Instead after replay reviews the next step would be a platoon with the player and have them talk about every action they were doing, why they went to x, and so forth. This way i could focus on driving my tank, see my platoon mate on the map, and be able to hear bad or good ideas the player had. examples were "I'm going to stay over here and help the flank" then I'd ask how they're actually helping push or defend the flank. 

 

Another idea came to me from reading this  I had the player create their own versions of the outdated maps. The player would use the same format that Okeano used so I could read it. During this exercise I found out how the player missed the role of mediums and some poor set ups for heavies, heavies, and didn't have an idea of what to do in the late game. 

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In order to be able to perform blue/purple at all tiers, you need knowledge of the most important tank characteristics (view, camo, reload, mobility,…)

Some things the players just have to learn themselves by playing the tanks/observing them (streams/youtube) or by simply encountering them...

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tl;dr - A long observation on learning and the coach and protégé relationship.

 

I don't know enough about tanks to teach anybody anything. I know a little about learning and mastering a complex skill. Here are a few of my observations.



At any given skill level (perhaps below profound mastery) there is always more that should be seen, done, noticed, intuited, grasped, than can be by the learner at any given instance in time--such is the nature of getting axons and neurons and the relevant subset of our Lever 2001 body parts all lined up pretty-like and firing to accomplish a given task.

In the other thing in life at which I got reasonably skilled by the time I was 19, my coaches told me many of the same things, day in and day out, for 10 years. In the main, I was probably neither more nor less stupid than the next person, and my final skill level fell somewhere a little right of center on the curve. The brain has a lot of plasticity but it is not infinitely alterable. Almost everyone can improve on any given "thing" from zero to some arbitrary >0 skill. The question is how much and how quickly?

My son is a professional drummer. He hears things in a highly complex riff or song which I do not hear. Let me repeat...which I am told (by neurolinguistics) I do not hear because I have not learned to hear them. I might learn to hear them but even that is not a given. We know, for instance, that if one has not heard the sounds of ones second (or third or fourth or nth) language by the age of about 10, one will almost certainly never sound like a native speaker of the language. Grammatically perfecto? It's possible. Aurally perfecto? Nope, because  the "subdirectories" in the brain don't exist into which the correct way to synchronize our sound reproduction equipment (vocal chords, lips, mouth, lungs)  would be stored and from which they would be reproduced. Those bins aren't going to be built no matter how many hours we spend listening to Rosetta language programs.

Without this awareness, the practical implications for both coach and protégé are enormously frustrating and joy-killing. You'll  tell me "don't tunnel vision" five games in a row and I don't. In the 6th game I tunnel vision, you get killed, I get killed, the team loses and everybody is pissed because I did not listen. Ditto for "watch the ridge line" or my current self-beration: "back out after every shot until you know the games so well that are certain that you needn't have done so".

The most highly skilled coaches adapt their instruction to the protege's current level...always pushing to the next tiny, essentially "invisible", increment of improvement....never seeking more than they know to be the maximal possible "stretch" at any given level of skill. It makes strong intuitive sense to "play above your current level"---it's part of where the stretch to the next level will come. But this "common sense" is reduced to the absurd when, for instance, we think that a 12 year tennis player will learn to return serves better by standing opposite Roger Federer's best serve. Our 12 year old can do this for 12 hours a day and her improvement as a tennis player will be slowed, not accelerated.

The world is full of coaches who themselves were never the best executors of the thing at which they excel as coaches. Pick a name, any name. One of their skills is the awareness of what comes next and how to coach it.

With this awareness, your protege's development is possible and the coaching rewarding for you but it is not everyone's cup of tea.

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tl;dr - A long observation on learning and the coach and protégé relationship.

 

I don't know enough about tanks to teach anybody anything. I know a little about learning and mastering a complex skill. Here are a few of my observations.

At any given skill level (perhaps below profound mastery) there is always more that should be seen, done, noticed, intuited, grasped, than can be by the learner at any given instance in time--such is the nature of getting axons and neurons and the relevant subset of our Lever 2001 body parts all lined up pretty-like and firing to accomplish a given task.

In the other thing in life at which I got reasonably skilled by the time I was 19, my coaches told me many of the same things, day in and day out, for 10 years. In the main, I was probably neither more nor less stupid than the next person, and my final skill level fell somewhere a little right of center on the curve. The brain has a lot of plasticity but it is not infinitely alterable. Almost everyone can improve on any given "thing" from zero to some arbitrary >0 skill. The question is how much and how quickly?

My son is a professional drummer. He hears things in a highly complex riff or song which I do not hear. Let me repeat...which I am told (by neurolinguistics) I do not hear because I have not learned to hear them. I might learn to hear them but even that is not a given. We know, for instance, that if one has not heard the sounds of ones second (or third or fourth or nth) language by the age of about 10, one will almost certainly never sound like a native speaker of the language. Grammatically perfecto? It's possible. Aurally perfecto? Nope, because  the "subdirectories" in the brain don't exist into which the correct way to synchronize our sound reproduction equipment (vocal chords, lips, mouth, lungs)  would be stored and from which they would be reproduced. Those bins aren't going to be built no matter how many hours we spend listening to Rosetta language programs.

Without this awareness, the practical implications for both coach and protégé are enormously frustrating and joy-killing. You'll  tell me "don't tunnel vision" five games in a row and I don't. In the 6th game I tunnel vision, you get killed, I get killed, the team loses and everybody is pissed because I did not listen. Ditto for "watch the ridge line" or my current self-beration: "back out after every shot until you know the games so well that are certain that you needn't have done so".

The most highly skilled coaches adapt their instruction to the protege's current level...always pushing to the next tiny, essentially "invisible", increment of improvement....never seeking more than they know to be the maximal possible "stretch" at any given level of skill. It makes strong intuitive sense to "play above your current level"---it's part of where the stretch to the next level will come. But this "common sense" is reduced to the absurd when, for instance, we think that a 12 year tennis player will learn to return serves better by standing opposite Roger Federer's best serve. Our 12 year old can do this for 12 hours a day and her improvement as a tennis player will be slowed, not accelerated.

The world is full of coaches who themselves were never the best executors of the thing at which they excel as coaches. Pick a name, any name. One of their skills is the awareness of what comes next and how to coach it.

With this awareness, your protege's development is possible and the coaching rewarding for you but it is not everyone's cup of tea.

That is the saddest thing I have ever read, my dreams are shattered!!!! 

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