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How often do small clan wars clans become big clan wars clans that have land?

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How often do small clan wars clan get rise up and take and keep land? It seems small clans suffer high rates of attrition from their good players leaving to get to land owning clans making it hard for small clans to rise up. On top of just being able to keep land how often do small clans rise up into major clans (like top 20)?

 

It seems that some big clans have been imploding recently. Are there any small land owning clans that are starting to become major players? Or are imploded clan's spots just being filled up subclans that are becoming more powerful?

 

Also what's the deal with BULLS? They like got created and became super good really quick. How did that happen?

 

Edit: Small and big do not necessarily refer to number of players but just how good the clans are.

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Doesn't really matter on the size of the clan as the quality of players.

There's no way reds and yellows are taking on Relic.

 

Sorry IOC but 1,2 line push isn't going to work. Ever.

 

Yes, you need a decent amount of players for CW, because of tank locking and not everyone can play all the time. But as demonstrated by CHAI you really only need 30-40 people to play CW regularly to win.

 

Edit 1: Small clans actually become good clans when you manage to get a group of good people together for long enough to take and hold land

From my knowledge, most big successful clans were formed VERY early on, and/or are reformations of older disbanded clans, for example Purpl, or Stuglyfe, and a few others.

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Size is relative as is success. Kare Bears has never fielded more than 2 teams but always been land holding anytime I felt like landing. We spent the last 9months or so with less than 20 active players but held land, fought wars and successfully completed campaigns. So hearing complaints about "big clans" making small clans unable to play is noise from the uneducated. However that does not mean the same as competing at the highest level. Much of what we have done with the bears stems from an established identity and reputation with great friends and diplomacy. This props us up when we are weak until we are strong again. Clans like Bulls are simply a recycling and shuffling of established CW's players from major clans. I think they qualify more on the grounds as a spin off clan than a truly "new" clan in the terms you are using.

 

The odds of an unknown clan with no real CW's experience growing from landing zone wannabe's into Clan wars viable heavy hitters without joining a larger "family" of clans is zero. Wargaming rules simply make it unrealistic. There is no "training area" on the map and unless you have 30 or so unicom level players groomed up internally to draw others like them you will always be out recruited.

 

My opinion but you asked.

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Well BULLS is literally the Monster Dr. Frankenstein made only personified as a clan.

 

No joke it consists of refugees/friends from BAD , PBKAC, ENJOY, WAR etc. 

 

That and they picked up a good amount of free lance or low activity soldiers who promptly returned to CWs with the prospects of joining a brand new clan with new leadership. 

 

So there spontaneous clan family creation, also GSKUL renamed to NUGGS so no building there except for the 20 or so folks we pulled up from MOTU or recruited in the last 2 months.

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Well BULLS is literally the Monster Dr. Frankenstein made only personified as a clan.

 

No joke it consists of refugees/friends from BAD, TESLA, VOLT, -G- etc. 

 

That and they picked up a good amount of free lance or low activity soldiers who promptly returned to CWs with the prospects of joining a brand new clan with new leadership. 

 

So there spontaneous clan family creation, also GSKUL renamed to NUGGS so no building there except for the 20 or so folks we pulled up from MOTU or recruited in the last 2 months.

FTFY

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as posters above said it just takes a group of skilled players to draw attention at first, or ability to do CWs really well.

small clans that become big ones(as in don't hold shit land/can defend themselves) recently?

dos

bulls

both had a good group of initial players to start from, both grew, bulls a lot faster, it helps to not be veiwed as xXx_490_xXx spergs also, that's why dos still has a large (like 20+) amount of innactives/alts while it appears bulls is full.

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I'd like to start out by saying, do you know who KRT is? And if not, that's ok. We've been on the global map for a while now, getting on, moving around, getting knocked off, getting back on again, etc. We've made friends with Kare Bears who have been great guys every time we chat with them. We've been in another short term alliance in Alaska for a bit, till we got knocked off. Sure we've lost a couple people to other clans, or just quitting the game, but the core has stayed almost the exact same. Even 6 months ago, you would not have seen us on the map. Some of you may know RedPrince42 from the bronze league last season, as he made a lot of things about the league more fun. 

 

Anyways, I wouldn't call us a top clan, yet, but we're one of those clans who are making a name for themselves.

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Bulls got all the 1st round draft picks yo.

 

I was initially in GMONK before smiley told me he could get me into CRABS once I got a T10. He joined BULLS soon after im guessing, and got me in before he defected to DOS a few weeks later.

 

But essentially I was a purple stuck in a green clan before.

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Built FOXEY to what it is today from a bunch of people in BURDY that wanted to do CW. We're no top clan, but there have been a lot of highs and lows along a path of steady improvement. And it was built originally on the backs of people that had almost no collective CW experience. The success of the clan has always ebbed and flowed with the investment the officers put in to it. While we weren't totally independent, we've had enough support to help us through the rough spots. We're decent and improving.

What does it take? Well, the skill level of the officers dictates to some level the success potential of the clan. So you're not going to be a green that starts the next -G-. But a LOT of hard work and dedication from a team of people (which WILL rotate over time, period), along with recruiting that can bring better players in at a rate higher than they leave, you'll be better off in the long run.

We've lost a number of our best players to bigger clans, but we make and recruit them faster than we lose them. That's a huge secret.

Clans like BULLS are already experienced, good players working together. Building your own CW clan in this day in age with no significant prior experience from the ground up is an immensely challenging proposition.

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Built FOXEY to what it is today from a bunch of people in BURDY that wanted to do CW. We're no top clan, but there have been a lot of highs and lows along a path of steady improvement. And it was built originally on the backs of people that had almost no collective CW experience. The success of the clan has always ebbed and flowed with the investment the officers put in to it. While we weren't totally independent, we've had enough support to help us through the rough spots. We're decent and improving.

What does it take? Well, the skill level of the officers dictates to some level the success potential of the clan. So you're not going to be a green that starts the next -G-. But a LOT of hard work and dedication from a team of people (which WILL rotate over time, period), along with recruiting that can bring better players in at a rate higher than they leave, you'll be better off in the long run.

We've lost a number of our best players to bigger clans, but we make and recruit them faster than we lose them. That's a huge secret.

Clans like BULLS are already experienced, good players working together. Building your own CW clan in this day in age with no significant prior experience from the ground up is an immensely challenging proposition.

I am going to assume OP isn't planning on being in Petco. Which in itself helped Foxey to become what it is today. Just the brand 'Petco' is a competitive edge to all other newer start up clans.

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Folks should also remember BG and some from other clans of the time helped form -G- (as in players came from those clans) and I would love it if Yankee came on Wotlabs and gave his "sit on pappys lap and listen" synopsis as my understanding is extremely limited.

 

Regardless -G- has had better staying power than any clan since beta. 

 

I mean AOD is dead for all intents and purposes, MLP is dead/IR also dead, CB(still) sucks, Goon clans(SGLE, CONDI, MS-W) are empty and the players moved elsewhere, and so you have clans that formed post SCC or just prior too SCC conquering the current terrain. With a few notable exceptions which include most of the top 10 or even 15. 

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I am going to assume OP isn't planning on being in Petco. Which in itself helped Foxey to become what it is today. Just the brand 'Petco' is a competitive edge to all other newer start up clans.

It was a tremendous boost. But it was not everything.

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It was a tremendous boost. But it was not everything.

Of course. I'm not diminishing you are any other Foxey officers hard work. But it helps to be "known" before you should be.

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The problem with a small non-name clan harboring and recruiting good players is that the best of those players who have the right competetive spirit and skill will get poached or leave for greener pastures... Which makes sense. Why sit around earning a few dozen gold every couple of days when you can get in with a clan that's holding a half dozen highly-valued territories and has the manpower to keep them?

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WoTCS has this really cool feature that shows membership changes. It shows where the new members came from and where other members have left too. 

If you dig around somewhat, you'll begin to see that most top clans are filled with players who are shuffling around moving up the food chain.

 

Take SCDRL for example. They benefited greatly from the BT implosion, so much that we could say the clan is ~20-30% BT. Not to mention that SCDRL itself is a rebuild of UF.

 

NOSHT is another young clan, but in reality it's all the CWs active players from Enjoy, Enjoy2, and X-Sight.

 

Heck, even those new TTIME guys are largely from BOX.

 

So is NOSHT the story of a small clan making it big? Or is NOSHT simply "EnjoyLite?"

Perhaps an over-simplification, but my point is that the CWs-competitive clans are built around highly experienced individuals who have been doing this for some time. 

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So to sum it up, in order to be successful@CW, you need to:

 

Have people thats been there since the start, or close to the start, these people have the experience, charisma and often times combat ability to rally the folks.

 

You need callers who has experience in fighting at least 1st tier clans or have been in them, these people know what it takes to win with and against the best.

You need senior officers and diplomats to be popular and well known to establish relationship with clans.

A team of seasoned veterans as your A-team, this is your backbone, at least enough for you to fight, adapt and win against any team, if you can't win fights consistently, you ain't getting any respect.

With these three you can grab 2-3k gold worth of land, focus on getting your 2nd team and 3rd, and when other clans implode, it would be your opportunity to grab the cream of the crop.

After these are done and you get a clan that can field 2-3 abled teams, you get a subclan that act as a feeder/social clan and then focus on getting them a good team, then a second, then you form your 3rd clan, and it goes on.

 

Until you explode from your own weight and decadence, becoming food for the scavengers wishing to be the next big thing.

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Most "new" clans rising to the top are anything but new. Fast rising new clans are usually just the latest reshuffle of experienced clanwar players. Top clans get built and implode it's a constant cycle. Very few clans remain relevant for years (on EU PTS had the longest stretch - they sunk into irrelevance only recently after being one of the top clans since the very start).

 

The chances of building a top notch clanwars outfit around people without prior clanwars experience is almost 0% at this point. Without knowledge transfer from oldguards, it's near impossible to train clanwars newbies into capable soldiers or callers.

 

Even if a mid-tier clan manages to build a good outfit around green and blue players that work well together and constantly improve, such a clans would have to show incredible cohesion to withstand the regular loss of top players to better clans on top of the normal attrition that makes players go inactive. It's already a major struggle to keep a mid-tier clan relevant in spite of these forces: if you have to train new players all the time, it's difficult to uphold the standard of play and keep a regular map presence. And while rising further is extremely difficult, such a clan can meet a quick demise into irrelevance - for example if their best callers get poached or burn out.

 

P.s.: This sounds admittedly very pessimistic.But I am part of such a mid-level clan and for me it is a good fit. I joined with a limited tier X garage and no prior experience but was lucky to stumble into an outfit that was built around a core of experienced guys (a lot of them had originally come from WMI (today STEEL)). They taught me a lot and it didn't take long for me to secure myself a spot in our line-ups. If I deserted today, I would probably be able to move up the foodchain but I like our officers and have fun. Plus I enjoy the struggle of trying to keep on the map in Europe. Having to fight (and often enough beat) statistically better clans has its own charm.

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Bulls has done nothing but hide behind chai, do not ask them for advice, they are bad. They regularly lose to clans like usvch and jav. bulls has not fought anyone worth mentioning.

 

Also foxey is still about as bad as it was when it started

 

Got it, and you are a superunicum playing for the besterest clan ever, right?

 

Seriously, I don't care about NA clans but shitposting like yours has no place in this forum. Get the fuck back to the official forums if that is all you have to contribute.

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Bulls has done nothing but hide behind chai, do not ask them for advice, they are bad. They regularly lose to clans like usvch and jav. bulls has not fought anyone worth mentioning.

 

Also foxey is still about as bad as it was when it started

 

OMG, totally agree. I fear CLAWS tags in randoms way more than BULLS!!!!1!1!!one!

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Got it, and you are a superunicum playing for the besterest clan ever, right?

 

Seriously, I don't care about NA clans but shitposting like yours has no place in this forum. Get the fuck back to the official forums if that is all you have to contribute.

 

I don't have to be a musician to tell you that Justin Bieber is objectively bad. Similarly, I don't have to be in a top clan to tell you that bulls has regularly lost to clans like usvch and jav, and has not fought anyone worth mentioning except the time they lost to DOS or freaked out when forge(lol) was landing on them.

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