Jump to content
Garbad

WHY arty sucks ass, by a unicum

  

316 members have voted

  1. 1. How should arty players be compensated when arty is removed?

    • They should be crucified for spreading cancer in the first place.
    • Nothing -- their reward was clicking when it was allowed.
    • Give them the credit/free exp cost of the clickers they played.
    • Enable karl and let them play clickers there, nothing else.


Recommended Posts

Link me to the guy who said it before me.

OH RITE, SCRUBBY PUBBY. I AM THE ORIGINAL.

The guy would be uhh you. That's the point. This thread tells us exactly nothing because it's just repeating what you've been saying for the past 3 years, and whatever discussion will come of it would just be the repeats of what are in the other arty threads we have.

Most people here hate arty anyways so you're just repreaching to the choir.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The guy would be uhh you. That's the point. This thread tells us exactly nothing because it's just repeating what you've been saying for the past 3 years, and whatever discussion will come of it would just be the repeats of what are in the other arty threads we have.

Link me to the older versions.

 

OH WAIT YOU CANT, THEY WERE HARDTOREADED.

Link to post
Share on other sites

We don't need to remove "Arty" from the game- just remove the RNG death diceroll part of the arty.

 

That only solves one part of the problem, it doesn't fix the most annoying ones

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Literally everyone finds arty unfun.     

 

 

 

5. If it really wasn't fun, nobody would play it. If nobody was playing it, there would be no problem. So the fact that all this arty debate exists at all, is a proof that quite a few people find it fun to play.

 

The only people who can enjoy that are those who are extremely mentally slow and can't get better results by skill.

 

As much as the RNG wants to obfuscate skill, WoT is still a skill based game.  Choosing to play the most RNG based class in a skill based game simply illuminates the player's inability to compete without that random crutch.  

 

Now, I'll admit, I play some arti from time to time.  Why?

 

1.  The low skill option is attractive when I am not focused, or don't feel like making any effort.  Of course, in those situation, I'd be better off doing something else.

2.  The rage.  Arti lets you harvest pubbie tears, while exerting minimal effort.  Fucking with people is a terrible motivator, but sometimes I'm a terrible person.

3.  Someone needs to shit on the reds who play high tiers.  My GW-E is a fat park pigeon, ready to release on the bloated mass of pubbiedom.  Pure gold too, because if you're going to shit on the underprivileged, you may as well go full Lannister.  

Link to post
Share on other sites
5.  No, even then no one plays arty because its fun.  They play it to grief or because it lets unskilled players compete.

But those unskilled players play because they are having fun, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Unless you really think that all those thousands of people spend countless hours clicking the map just in order to annoy others (and still, if they are doing it, they are doing it because they enjoy griefing, so in the end of the day they are still having fun.)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Unless you really think that all those thousands of people spend countless hours clicking the map just in order to annoy others

 

Considering the type of players this game gets, that sounds extremely reasonable

Link to post
Share on other sites

Considering the type of players this game gets, that sounds extremely reasonable

 

Hanlon's Razor would like to have a word with you.

Link to post
Share on other sites

But those unskilled players play because they are having fun, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Unless you really think that all those thousands of people spend countless hours clicking the map just in order to annoy others (and still, if they are doing it, they are doing it because they enjoy griefing, so in the end of the day they are still having fun.)

Which would you find more fun, driving straight into tanks and getting blown up before doing any dmg or sitting in the back of the map clicking on players and seeing actual dmg at the end of the game(as a red player). Point is when they are playing arty they feel like they are actually good at something which is fun for them, they can't achieve the same success in actual tanks so it is not as fun for them. A lot of people care more about the success rather then the gameplay.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Give them the credit/free exp cost of the clickers they played. 

Because I wasted a lot of time when I was a noob.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In conjunction with the recent poll showing unica hate TD's (duplicating my results from two years ago, btw), I decided to explain why TD's sucks.  I realize most skilled players know this, but many potatoes and tomatoes don't really get why unica hate TD's or why.

1.  TD's forces Bad Gameplay.

Because TD's can project massive alpha anywhere at any time, tanks are forced to constantly be in hard cover.  Moving fast is no insurance against clickers -- massive splash can track you even on a bad miss, or they can just get a good click on a moving target.  Its honestly not that hard to lead shots -- this is considered a basic skill among tankers, why do clickers think its so hard?  Likewise, camo is no panacea because sooner or later you WILL be spotted.  This makes large stretches of most maps unplayable because they are death traps.  Its no coincidence that each map has a few, tiny spots where tanks always go -- these are places where they are the least likely to get shit on by retard mode. And that's not all.  WOT's probably worst system is its gimmicky spotting/camo system.  Yet TD's puts gimmicky drive by spotting and suiscouting as good gameplay.  That's just stupid.

Without TD's, WOT is a game where position is key -- hull down, flank attacks, peekabooming, sniping, and so on all have a place.  With TD's, WOT is a game where 90% of the map is unused because of retard mode, and the few places were the game is playable have 6 tanks humping a wall clicking at each other, because no other tactics are possible.  Its night and day.

2.  TD's has excessive alpha.

The ability to one shot is always bad.  This is true for the T18, the KV-2, or the 183.  Alpha rewards camping.  TD's is no different, and worse, TD's oneshots are least common against the very tanks that TD's was intended to counter - instead of one shotting the camping E-100, TD's one shots the batchat who can't dodge fast enough.  Somehow, WG concluded that the solution to camping heavy tanks was to introduce a class that always camps and counters soft, fast tanks who actually try and leave cap.  Meanwhile, the people who sit in base and spot as their clickers click do just fine.

The stupidity of module/crew rape is also dumb as shit.

3.  TD's is low skill, luck based gameplay.

Tanks need to get good position, aim at weak points, lead targets and so on all while being aware of return fire.  TD's just needs to click and hope the RNG favors them.  This is inherently shitty -- why should people playing chess be put in the same match as people playing checkers?

4.  TD's is unhistorical.

This has been debated at length, but TD's as currently designed in WOT is a completely unrealistic abomination.

5.  TD's is unfun to play with or against.

Literally everyone finds TD's unfun.  Its boring to play -- long periods of sitting there waiting to reload followed by a random chance of watching your shot fly off wildly.  The only people who can enjoy that are those who are extremely mentally slow and can't get better results by skill.  Its unfun to play against -- long periods of humping rocks followed by watching the clickers drive into the water just before you arrive.  Its so much less active, interesting, and fun than tanks that its sickening.

Note some things I didn't say:

1.  TD's is OP.

TD's is probably technically weaker than a typical tank at this time.  This was certainly not always true -- TD's HAS been OP in the past.  But with more and more unfavorable maps, low DPM, and so on TD's doesn't carry as hard as a good regular tank.  That's also completely irrelevant, because what makes TD's awful is it promotes bad gameplay, not the fact that it is OP.

2.  TD's takes no skill.

TD's takes LESS skill, not no skill.  It also has less of a skill ceiling.  But so do heavily armored tank destroyers.  This isn't the damming feature of TD's, nor would it matter.  The key is it makes gameplay worse.

3.  You're just mad TD's clicked on you!!!~

Of course I'm mad -- retard mode shit up my skill based tank game and turned it into whackamole. But that's irrelevant -- my rage has nothing to do with why TD's is cancer.  Look at my fucking stats -- I can obviously dominate with or without TD's (and in fact, as a scouty medium I possibly even with MORE with TD's).  I say TD's is bad for gameplay for the same reason I say the VK4502 is inferior to the E-75 -- because it is, not because of one game, my feels, or anything else.

4.  Without TD's, TDs will dominate!!!~

If you attack them head on, TDs SHOULD dominate.  That's what they do -- they sacrifice a turret, speed, and HP for firepower and frontal armor.  They should do well at ambush gameplay (mid tiers) or holding a choke (high tier).  The solution to defeating these powerful tanks in good positions is not randomly generated bullshit, its skill.  Specifically, light tanks should counter campy, cloaky TDs by skillful scouting with their superior view range and moving camo giving the short view range TDs fits.  The counter to hard frontal TDs like the T95 is flank attacks and weak points.


5.  Without TD's, how can you assault (insert badly designed map X).

The solution to campy turtle play is already in game -- flank their position or cap them out.  Now I admit, many maps are badly designed.  WG map designers are dumb as shit, and frequently create maps with the cap having major camping spots right around base (complete with hard cover, soft cover, and great lines of fire/spotting).  These maps need to be reworked.  Every good defensive position needs to be vulnerable to flank from multiple paths.  Every cap needs to be exposed, so that if a camping team is forced to turtle and hide, they risk losing the game.  But again, the solution to bad map design is to rework the maps, not inject randomly generated bullshit from space.

6.  Its part of the game!  Its content!  They will never remove it!

Its part of the game that makes the rest of it worse.  Only a fool keeps something because they can -- keep what makes the game better, toss the crap.  And as for WG's "working as intended" line...remember they work for you.  You crook your finger and WG's income drops 10%, Serb will be sweating bullets.  WG's culture tries to promote a command and control structure (you take what I sell, ya comrade!  AND LIEK IT!), but watch how quickly the cave when the community demands something (like an TD's nerf).  If you glance at Warthunder, Serb's mortgage gets called in.  He knows this, although he doesn't want you to know it.  The failure of wowp has scared them shitless, I can assure you.  You say jump, serb will bitch and moan...and then start jumping.  And if he doesn't jump high enough...warthunder will.

TL;DR -- REMOVE_TD's_FROM_THE_GAME

 

and it took me 10 seconds of replacing words on wordpad.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In conjunction with the recent poll showing unica hate TD's (duplicating my results from two years ago, btw), I decided to explain why TD's sucks.  I realize most skilled players know this, but many potatoes and tomatoes don't really get why unica hate TD's or why.

1.  TD's forces Bad Gameplay.

Because TD's can project massive alpha anywhere at any time, tanks are forced to constantly be in hard cover.  Moving fast is no insurance against clickers -- massive splash can track you even on a bad miss, or they can just get a good click on a moving target.  Its honestly not that hard to lead shots -- this is considered a basic skill among tankers, why do clickers think its so hard?  Likewise, camo is no panacea because sooner or later you WILL be spotted.  This makes large stretches of most maps unplayable because they are death traps.  Its no coincidence that each map has a few, tiny spots where tanks always go -- these are places where they are the least likely to get shit on by retard mode. And that's not all.  WOT's probably worst system is its gimmicky spotting/camo system.  Yet TD's puts gimmicky drive by spotting and suiscouting as good gameplay.  That's just stupid.

Without TD's, WOT is a game where position is key -- hull down, flank attacks, peekabooming, sniping, and so on all have a place.  With TD's, WOT is a game where 90% of the map is unused because of retard mode, and the few places were the game is playable have 6 tanks humping a wall clicking at each other, because no other tactics are possible.  Its night and day.

2.  TD's has excessive alpha.

The ability to one shot is always bad.  This is true for the T18, the KV-2, or the 183.  Alpha rewards camping.  TD's is no different, and worse, TD's oneshots are least common against the very tanks that TD's was intended to counter - instead of one shotting the camping E-100, TD's one shots the batchat who can't dodge fast enough.  Somehow, WG concluded that the solution to camping heavy tanks was to introduce a class that always camps and counters soft, fast tanks who actually try and leave cap.  Meanwhile, the people who sit in base and spot as their clickers click do just fine.

The stupidity of module/crew rape is also dumb as shit.

3.  TD's is low skill, luck based gameplay.

Tanks need to get good position, aim at weak points, lead targets and so on all while being aware of return fire.  TD's just needs to click and hope the RNG favors them.  This is inherently shitty -- why should people playing chess be put in the same match as people playing checkers?

4.  TD's is unhistorical.

This has been debated at length, but TD's as currently designed in WOT is a completely unrealistic abomination.

5.  TD's is unfun to play with or against.

Literally everyone finds TD's unfun.  Its boring to play -- long periods of sitting there waiting to reload followed by a random chance of watching your shot fly off wildly.  The only people who can enjoy that are those who are extremely mentally slow and can't get better results by skill.  Its unfun to play against -- long periods of humping rocks followed by watching the clickers drive into the water just before you arrive.  Its so much less active, interesting, and fun than tanks that its sickening.

Note some things I didn't say:

1.  TD's is OP.

TD's is probably technically weaker than a typical tank at this time.  This was certainly not always true -- TD's HAS been OP in the past.  But with more and more unfavorable maps, low DPM, and so on TD's doesn't carry as hard as a good regular tank.  That's also completely irrelevant, because what makes TD's awful is it promotes bad gameplay, not the fact that it is OP.

2.  TD's takes no skill.

TD's takes LESS skill, not no skill.  It also has less of a skill ceiling.  But so do heavily armored tank destroyers.  This isn't the damming feature of TD's, nor would it matter.  The key is it makes gameplay worse.

3.  You're just mad TD's clicked on you!!!~

Of course I'm mad -- retard mode shit up my skill based tank game and turned it into whackamole. But that's irrelevant -- my rage has nothing to do with why TD's is cancer.  Look at my fucking stats -- I can obviously dominate with or without TD's (and in fact, as a scouty medium I possibly even with MORE with TD's).  I say TD's is bad for gameplay for the same reason I say the VK4502 is inferior to the E-75 -- because it is, not because of one game, my feels, or anything else.

4.  Without TD's, TDs will dominate!!!~

If you attack them head on, TDs SHOULD dominate.  That's what they do -- they sacrifice a turret, speed, and HP for firepower and frontal armor.  They should do well at ambush gameplay (mid tiers) or holding a choke (high tier).  The solution to defeating these powerful tanks in good positions is not randomly generated bullshit, its skill.  Specifically, light tanks should counter campy, cloaky TDs by skillful scouting with their superior view range and moving camo giving the short view range TDs fits.  The counter to hard frontal TDs like the T95 is flank attacks and weak points.

5.  Without TD's, how can you assault (insert badly designed map X).

The solution to campy turtle play is already in game -- flank their position or cap them out.  Now I admit, many maps are badly designed.  WG map designers are dumb as shit, and frequently create maps with the cap having major camping spots right around base (complete with hard cover, soft cover, and great lines of fire/spotting).  These maps need to be reworked.  Every good defensive position needs to be vulnerable to flank from multiple paths.  Every cap needs to be exposed, so that if a camping team is forced to turtle and hide, they risk losing the game.  But again, the solution to bad map design is to rework the maps, not inject randomly generated bullshit from space.

6.  Its part of the game!  Its content!  They will never remove it!

Its part of the game that makes the rest of it worse.  Only a fool keeps something because they can -- keep what makes the game better, toss the crap.  And as for WG's "working as intended" line...remember they work for you.  You crook your finger and WG's income drops 10%, Serb will be sweating bullets.  WG's culture tries to promote a command and control structure (you take what I sell, ya comrade!  AND LIEK IT!), but watch how quickly the cave when the community demands something (like an TD's nerf).  If you glance at Warthunder, Serb's mortgage gets called in.  He knows this, although he doesn't want you to know it.  The failure of wowp has scared them shitless, I can assure you.  You say jump, serb will bitch and moan...and then start jumping.  And if he doesn't jump high enough...warthunder will.

TL;DR -- REMOVE_TD's_FROM_THE_GAME

 

and it took me 10 seconds of replacing words on wordpad.

10 seconds well spent...actually, no it was retarded even by your standards.  But go on, let's hear you try to claim tds are literally worse than cancer.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The easiest solution is to make arty not allowable in pub matches. Give people back the xp earned as free xp and allow people to go up arty lines with any type of xp earned in the country.

 

I've said this over and over they could make arty viable and skill-based just not going to do it.

 

My top 3 with arty player responses...

 

1. Make them use draw distance just like every other tank.

Arty player:"I need to move from cap now?"

"What's draw distance?"

 

2. Require them to shoot/splash weakspots around the tank.

Arty player:"what's a weakspot?"

 

3. Lower alpha and no full penetrations, which you could increase ROF then and splash.

Arty player:"I hit you... I didn't one-shot you in my 261?"

Link to post
Share on other sites

But what about the FV304? You gotta move around sometimes whenever you cant get a shot on an enemy.

 

 

I really dont care about number4, over half of the tanks in WOT is unhistorical.

 

 

Just wait for WT GF.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Except TD can't project influence at any part of the map at any time. They're limited by draw range and direct LoS that a small bump on the ground can cut off. Claiming TD is exactly like arty is moronic as we've gone over before.

 

While not trying to refute your claim that TD's can not project influence all over the map (because, under certain circumstances, they very well can), and seeing as that is not really the main argument against TD's, claiming that artillery could and even can currently exhort all forms of influence and violence upon the entirety of all maps, at every portion of any map, is simply retarded. Crippling aim times, accuracy that is even more goofy than before, generally longer aiming times and unreliable HE mechanics are oddly only compensated in exchange by either quick rate of fire and ridiculous alpha (FV304), which in turn turns your battlefield control argument into moot, or by using gold HE shells for a bigger splash, which further cements the notion that it was gold rounds that killed artillery, not artillery itself. And that's without even going into breaking down every map, in deep and lengthy detail, and finding out that a majority of maps have unrealistic height differences and there's sound hard cover that not only protects you from artillery but also creates even more camping when abused by TD's.

 

TD's currently hold the highest DPM across all tank classes, the highest average alpha, the highest accuracy, the highest camouflage and, in most cases, the highest view range. If World of Tanks map design is such that almost all combat takes place frontally and with a minimal amount of flanking, why give TD's all of the pros and little to none of the cons? (great, you don't have a turret, that means your tank is also shorter vertically).

 

 

Being able to keep someone permatracked in an SPG while hitting them over a 5m tall rock?

10/10 balancing this is how all SPGs should be like, I see nothing wrong with it

 

Use your repair kit or get 100% rep crew in your tanks, dunno. The 304 has a short range by the virtue of its gun (a mortar/howitzer-like gun).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Use your repair kit or get 100% rep crew in your tanks, dunno.

 

Not everyone has the crew skills to train repair, as they don't expect to get permatracked by a 304 every other match

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not everyone has the crew skills to train repair, as they don't expect to get permatracked by a 304 every other match

 

dunno, try to wiggle a little bit, I know sitting in the same spot seems like a sound tactical choice but you should really pay attention to the flow of the battle from time to time. this could also further prevent always blaming pubbies from collapsing flanks and so on.

Link to post
Share on other sites

While not trying to refute your claim that TD's can not project influence all over the map (because, under certain circumstances, they very well can), and seeing as that is not really the main argument against TD's, claiming that artillery could and even can currently exhort all forms of influence and violence upon the entirety of all maps, at every portion of any map, is simply retarded. Crippling aim times, accuracy that is even more goofy than before, generally longer aiming times and unreliable HE mechanics are oddly only compensated in exchange by either quick rate of fire and ridiculous alpha (FV304), which in turn turns your battlefield control argument into moot, or by using gold HE shells for a bigger splash, which further cements the notion that it was gold rounds that killed artillery, not artillery itself. And that's without even going into breaking down every map, in deep and lengthy detail, and finding out that a majority of maps have unrealistic height differences and there's sound hard cover that not only protects you from artillery but also creates even more camping when abused by TD's.

 

TD's currently hold the highest DPM across all tank classes, the highest average alpha, the highest accuracy, the highest camouflage and, in most cases, the highest view range. If World of Tanks map design is such that almost all combat takes place frontally and with a minimal amount of flanking, why give TD's all of the pros and little to none of the cons? (great, you don't have a turret, that means your tank is also shorter vertically).

 

 

 

Use your repair kit or get 100% rep crew in your tanks, dunno. The 304 has a short range by the virtue of its gun (a mortar/howitzer-like gun).

The current population of arty and level of influence I'm fine with.

Link to post
Share on other sites

The current population of arty and level of influence I'm fine with.

 

Same, but if we give artillery all of the cons and TD's all of the pros, we get the current shitty stalemate of a game. It takes balls to say that watching 48% potatoes single-handedly clip tier 10's on their WTE-100's and claim they're good isn't as bad, if not worse, than 5 artillery locking down a map.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...