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Two Person Bush Exposure

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I had this 'tested' sometime when I first joined FOXEY. I can't remember who tested it, but here was the question:

If two tanks are both sitting behind the same bush and both are covered completely by this bush, if one of them fires, does it remove the bush camo rating for both players or just the one that fired?

 

Please and thank you for the discussion and answers.

 

Much appreciated, y'all.

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I believe it lowers the bushes camo value to a set percentage of around 35% 30% If I remember correctly, along with nearby bushes as well.

 

Source: http://wiki.worldoftanks.com/Battle_Mechanics#Camouflage

 

  • Each bush provides the same environment camouflage bonus X. Since these bonuses stack, tank 1 has an environmentCamo value of 3 * X.
  • However, as soon as tank 1 fires its gun, the environment bonuses within the 15m radius no longer stack. Instead, only the bonus from the bush with the highest camouflage bonus is taken into account. In addition, the bonus from that bush is reduced to 30% of its original value, so 0.3 * X. Bonuses from environment outside of the 15m radius stack as usual. Thus, while firing tank 1 has an environment camouflage bonus of 0.3 * X + X = 1.3 * X.
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I believe I have aimed at a bush and someone has fired out of it, and 2 enemy tanks have been revealed, but I would need to hunt through replays to confirm this is true and that there were no external factors.

 

I will test it tonight.

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my experience is that the player next to me can be killed without exposing me. he fires, i do not. 

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I also believe it only effects the bush camo for the one firing. because In my 704 just last night I had someone try to use the same bush as me, he fired first, was lit and killed, I fired and was not lit and continued to fire. 

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But it lowers that bushes camo value, meaning that there is a higher probability that another vehicle behind the same bush can be spotted correct?

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I've always been under the impression that once a tank fires, all bushes within 15 meters of that player become transparent, regardless of what tanks are behind it. I've never tested this, though. 

I'd like to see it tested both with and without the bushes to see whether nearby shots affect personal camo as well. I've had a few moments in my history as a scout where someone firing next to me resulted in sixth sense popping off (though, I can't necessarily claim their shot caused it without proper experiments).

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I tested this with 2 clan mates in Murovanka. We used 2 tier 6 TDs as the bush (tree)  hiding tanks and an FV4202 as the spotting tank. We parked the FV about 120 meters away and put it to small test. When my T25 fired, I was lit but the jagdpanther was not. When the JP fired, he was lit and I was not.

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if you fire, It does NOT lower camo for other tanks in the bush, it only lowers your camo bonus from the bush.  Tested this a while back.

 

What people forget is that camo rating is tank specific.  When i shoot, it lowers my camo, independent of what other tanks are near me.  

 

However what can and does happen is you end up between the tank that got lit and what is firing at him and get shot.  Possibly confusing that with being spotted.

 

I see this happen often and have to tell pubs not to sit in the same bush with me when i am camo sniping.  Because i know damn well the crap camo tank trying to share the bush WILL get me killed.

 

I think those that test it currently will come to the same conclusion, however i feel it should be done, just to make sure WG didn't sneak in undocumented changes.

 

However as comfortable as i am with the camo system, i think i would have noticed a change by now.

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My understanding is that the bush camo is reduced for the purpose of spotting in conjunction with your shot (firing decreases your camo, and with this implementation it also decreases your bush camo).  Given that it would make sense that it only affects your tank.

 

I don't believe that the bush camo difference 'lasts' for a duration beyond the shot, other than a short window to make sure that spotting checks will happen while the camo is reduced.

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My understanding is that the bush camo is reduced for the purpose of spotting in conjunction with your shot (firing decreases your camo, and with this implementation it also decreases your bush camo).  Given that it would make sense that it only affects your tank.

 

I don't believe that the bush camo difference 'lasts' for a duration beyond the shot, other than a short window to make sure that spotting checks will happen while the camo is reduced.

 

This is my belief as well, reinforced by the ability to shoot tanks passing behind bushes on the move that would spot you if you chose to take the shot when they weren't passing behind a bush near them.  In fact, that is one of my favorite things to do, use your own nearby bushes against you lol.

 

This doesn't protect you from something that could otherwise spot you if you fire however, just to be clear.  So if you shoot a tank passing behind a bush, but a second tank is sitting near him not behind a bush, the second tank will spot you if he is within the range to do so.

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Cam for the bush but left a lot wiser. Is there a definitive answer on how much the bush rating is reduced by?

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Cam for the bush but left a lot wiser. Is there a definitive answer on how much the bush rating is reduced by?

 

30% reduction if within 15 meters or so.

 

btw, not all bushes are created equal, some give more rating than others.  Typically the thicker looking bushes give better camo.  someone has a chart posted a year or so ago, can't seem to find it now.  It has changed a bit (decreased slightly) since then anyway.

 

Edit: Also, i found the old Camo list for environmental objects. this is from 8.6, so some have changed, but it gives you the idea.  

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Au-0ejftw524dDZKTUxTTzR1Vlg5XzQ1WGYwTFNkdmc

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30% reduction if within 15 meters or so.

 

btw, not all bushes are created equal, some give more rating than others.  Typically the thicker looking bushes give better camo.  someone has a chart posted a year or so ago, can't seem to find it now.  It has changed a bit (decreased slightly) since then anyway.

 

Edit: Also, i found the old Camo list for environmental objects. this is from 8.6, so some have changed, but it gives you the idea.  

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0Au-0ejftw524dDZKTUxTTzR1Vlg5XzQ1WGYwTFNkdmc

Wot Info updated their camo calculator with generic bushes and on the following link listed the camo for the different vegetation on each map:

[url=http://wotinfo.net/en/noobcorner?article=vegetation_camo

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Awesome! thanks very much for the info.

Abused it and got 2k damage and 5 kills in the ole elc earlier

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I just wish WG would fix (or remove) the "cosmetic" bushes -- the ones that are on the map but don't actually provide any camo.

There is (or was, prior to the most recent update; not sure if it's changed) one in about A7 on Malinovka that was incredibly tempting for tanks pushing from the east and trying to hulldown... but it didn't actually hide you, at all. There are a few others that I don't recall ATM.

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if you fire, It does NOT lower camo for other tanks in the bush, it only lowers your camo bonus from the bush.  Tested this a while back.

 

What people forget is that camo rating is tank specific.  When i shoot, it lowers my camo, independent of what other tanks are near me.  

 

However what can and does happen is you end up between the tank that got lit and what is firing at him and get shot.  Possibly confusing that with being spotted.

 

I see this happen often and have to tell pubs not to sit in the same bush with me when i am camo sniping.  Because i know damn well the crap camo tank trying to share the bush WILL get me killed.

 

I think those that test it currently will come to the same conclusion, however i feel it should be done, just to make sure WG didn't sneak in undocumented changes.

 

^^^ This

 

I'll be in a TD all camo'd up Mr Asshat hvy tank pulls up next to me fires ... gets lit ... enemy shoots ... I get killed by misses on him

 

I'm like always telling them get the fuck away youre going to get me killed dipshit, heck I've killed invisble tanks parked in front of lit ones hiding behind the invis tank many times

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I distinctly remember playing my T71 on that gulag map before it was reworked. I started on the South spawn and went up the west hill to spot stuff coming up the hill from the North. Spotted tanks, and I didn't fire. Kept them lit the entire time and I was never spotted. I ran with a full camo crew and had tank camo. An M103 came up next to me attempting to shoot the lit tanks, each time he shot I would get lit.

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I just wish WG would fix (or remove) the "cosmetic" bushes -- the ones that are on the map but don't actually provide any camo.

There is (or was, prior to the most recent update; not sure if it's changed) one in about A7 on Malinovka that was incredibly tempting for tanks pushing from the east and trying to hulldown... but it didn't actually hide you, at all. There are a few others that I don't recall ATM.

Or the fact that none of the bamboo in Pearl River provides camo. They (apparently) realize that vision mechanics are a big issue with the game, and still do dumb ass shit that requires meta-game knowledge.

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