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Gryphon_

WN8 Expected Values Update

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IS-5 is already there, so is the AMX 13-57 'non-GF' version

So we need to add

  • A45: 55121 = Black Prince: 3153
  • SP-1C: 18961 = T71: 15649
  • Jap Tiger: 52321 = VK3601: 2321

That ok?

wnefficiency.net has been updated:

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How about we set BT7a = BT7?

Any objections (I havent played it)?

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If you're updating, might as well set the japanese heavies. Suggest using IS-4 line values as placeholders until real data is in. 

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Jap heavies too? Will need all those IDs, and the consensus of the community on what tanks will provide the values. Some of them look very E100-like. I will never play them.

I dont run my expected values updates anymore so whatever values we give them, thats it

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I bring new tank IDs, including those from my previous list that are not yet playable, but present in game files:

Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation  Status
Kanonenjagdpanzer        61969  8     td      ger     new prem
Type 89 I-Go/Chi-Ro      5985   2     heavy   jp      new
Type 91                  4705   3     heavy   jp      new
Type 95                  4449   4     heavy   jp      new
O-I Experimental         5729   5     heavy   jp      new
O-I                      5473   6     heavy   jp      new
O-Ni                     5217   7     heavy   jp      new
O-Ho                     4961   8     heavy   jp      new
Type 4 Heavy             4193   9     heavy   jp      new
Type 5 Heavy             3937   10    heavy   jp      new

Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation  Status
T-28E F-30               61441  4     medium  ussr    supertest
Object 244               60161  6     heavy   ussr    supertest
Object 777               61185  10    medium  ussr    supertest
T22SR A22                61697  10    medium  ussr    supertest
VK100.01 (P) / Typ 205   62737  8     heavy   ger     supertest
Steyr WT                 61713  7     td      ger     supertest
Rhm Skorpion             62481  8     td      ger     supertest
M48A2                    56865  10    medium  usa     supertest
Sherman M4A1 Revalorisé  63041  8     medium  fra     supertest

 

9.10 playable tanks at the top, with supertest at the bottom.

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I send out an update. I used the USSR heavy line Kv-1 to Is4 as expected values for the new Japan heavies, and the SU101 for the new German TD 

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BT-7 arty is missing :'(

Guess its partly my fault for not including it in my previous list;

Name            ID     Tier  Type   Nation  Status
BT-7 artillery  60929  3     light  ussr    new prem

 

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BT-7 arty is missing :'(

Guess its partly my fault for not including it in my previous list;

If it makes you feel any better, WG forgot to add it to the NA API until I reminded them a couple of days ago.

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If it makes you feel any better, WG forgot to add it to the NA API until I reminded them a couple of days ago.

At least they're open to quick updates

Its there now

Noice

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Missed the 59 Patton while fetching ID's so adding it now. Not that it is of any dire importance right now.

-SNIP-

See post below

Edited by Orrie

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Since patch 10.0 is out;

 

Patch 10.0:
Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation   Status
T3 HMC                   6177   2     td      usa      replaced T18 (same id)
T56 GMC                  6433   3     td      usa      replaced T82 (same id)
T1 HMC                   2081   2     spg     usa      replaced T57 (same id)
T18                      18465  3     spg     usa      new
T82                      18721  4     spg     usa      new
Centurion Action X       7249   10    medium  uk       replaced FV4202 (same id)
Skoda T 40               51569  6     medium  czech    new prem

Missing Premiums:
Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation   Status
Sherman M4A1 Revalorisé  63041  8     medium  france   prem
59 Patton                63793  8     medium  china    prem

Supertest:
Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation   Status
T-28E F-30               61441  4     medium  ussr     
Т-44-100                 61953  8     medium  ussr     new
T22SR A22                61697  10    medium  ussr     
Object 244               60161  6     heavy   ussr     
IS3 Auto                 60417  8     heavy   ussr     
Object 777               61185  10    heavy   ussr     
KV-4 KTTS                62209  8     td      ussr     new
43 М. Toldi III          63505  3     light   germany  new
Turán III prototípus     63249  5     medium  germany  new
Panzer 58                63761  8     medium  germany  new
VK 45.03                 62993  7     heavy   germany  new
VK 100.01 (P) / Typ 205  62737  8     heavy   germany  
Steyr WT                 61713  7     td      germany  
Rhm Skorpion             62481  8     td      germany  
M48A2                    56865  10    medium  usa      
FV4202 (P)               55633  8     medium  uk       
Chieftain/T95            15441  8     medium  uk       new
Chieftain Mk. 6          15185  10    heavy   uk       new
AMX M4 mle. 49           62785  8     heavy   france   new

 

Edited by Orrie

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Nice list. The 10.0 patch notes also mention the Skoda T-40 tier 6 premium and the FV4202 tier 8 premium. Any information on those?

The FV4202 is in the list as FV4202 (P).

I couldn't get the Skoda T-40, but I'll work on it.

Its there now :)

Edited by Orrie

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I need someone else to take on the task of figuring out the most appropriate expected values for new tanks. I have no plans to continue doing this.

If no-one wants to take it on, and if WN9 isnt rolled out soon, we will need to re-look at going to fixed values based on type and tier averages; not perfect, but they never need to change.

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Recommendations so far:

Cent AX: FV4202

Skoda T40: Unsure here; 3001P may be our best bet when it comes to closest competitor, but it's almost a given that it'll perform considerably better. Any opinions?

Sherman M4A1: No comparable vehicles, will have to tie it to the CDC.

59-Patton: Pershing (would preferably be T95E2, but T95E2 is currently pershing values too).

Fingers crossed for WN9.

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Cent AX wont be a problem, since the FV4202 stats will carry over, and it'll use same ID.

VK30.01P looks like the closest one for Skoda T 40, as can't really think of anything with similar armor layout and playstyle. (T-34-85 maybe?)
But yeah, looks like Skoda will have better penetration and dpm, dunno about gun handling, as I'm not capable of comparing right now.

Missing prems, Sherman Rev - CDC and  59 Patton -Pershing, ayy.

And last but not least; T18 using M7 Priest and T82 using M37

 

@Gryphon_, How difficult would it be to run a classic update on all values? Maybe we can evaluate the current clones, and give them their own values?
 

Edited by Orrie

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How difficult would it be to run a classic update on all values? Maybe we can evaluate the current clones, and give them their own values?

Issues with WN8 updates:

  1. For new tanks, early values are horrible with the "classic" method. Usually much worse than a guess.
  2. Because there's no definition for the expected values, they tend to drift with each update, causing unnecessary forum aggro.

Generally speaking, the classic method is so inaccurate that it's of questionable value to have per-tank expected values in WN8 at all, which leads to some interesting options. However, the path of least resistance is to carry on copying tanks, and then maybe add a second-pass update with manually-entered values for tanks that were too far off. Only a handful of tanks would need this, at least if you don't care about artillery.

Switching WN8 expected values over to a class/tier system is a valid option though. I imagine there would be an initial shitstorm as usual.

Note that most of the arty expected values in WN8 are garbage due to pre-8.6 data, so you wouldn't want to re-use them for the T18 & T82. Copying the UK artillery will be in the right ballpark for new arty, with the exception of the CGC.

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Doesn't really matter how the playerbase takes it, as thats how WN8 is supposed to work, even if it would be considered bad or broken. (Which pretty much every rating is up to now.)
And using a class/tier might be good, but then it would be WN8,5 or something thereabouts, since you have to separate the versions.

I say just go for it, and really just ignore any aggro, as people are free to improve and try to make something better. :^)

 

Didn't think about the 8.6 nerf, so Brits are better, yeah.

 

Edited by Orrie

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Question: How hard would it be to get and maintain expected values for the console version?

Blitz? The classic (pseudo-recent) method would be straightforward, but of questionable value, just as it is for WN8. The interval method needs a lot more data, so it's likely to be marginal for Blitz, and it's also a lot of effort to maintain.  

I do have some interval expected values for WoWS, incidentally. Had to collect every account on all three major servers for seven weeks and it was still marginal at best. Should improve over time, but it'll never have as much data as WoT. Blitz at least has short battles.

 

Edit: Blitz isn't the console version. Is that even released yet? There's no sign of an API.

Edited by RichardNixon

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