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WN8 Expected Values Update

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Thanks. *wink*

K-Housenka -- Loltraktor
LT vz. 35 -- Pz 35(t)
LT vz. 38 -- Pz 38(t)
ST vz. 39 -- D.W. 2
Skoda T 24 -- Pz 3/4
Skoda T 40 -- VK 3001p
Skoda T 25 -- Chi Ri, perhaps 20% lower values or so
T-34/100 -- T-34-1
TVP VTU -- T-34-2
Skoda T 50 -- T54E1 or slightly increased Lorraine 40t values
TVP T 50/51 -- BatChat 25t

How do these look for the Czech tanks, @Orrie@CraBeatOff@RichardNixon

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Vickers Medium I might be a better match to the K-housenka. Big derpy gun, bad mobility, huge profile and made of paper. Might bounce more autocannon though...

LT vz. 35 -> Pz 35(t) looks reasonable.

Pz 38(t) is awesome so I'd hesitate to line a new tank up against it, but that one does look fascinating. Shame it's at a tier spoiled by newbie MM.

ST vz. 39 will get more spots than a DW2, but the damage should be reasonably close (Ke-Ho is the same) so it's fine.

Pz 3/4 is underrated in WN8 (it's bad, but not that bad) so it's not a good choice. The Chi Nu stats should be closer. Switch the G1R to the same stats (if not the Pz IVH) while you're at it, because it's a sick padder atm.

In terms of damage output, autoloaders aren't balanced differently from non-autoloaders. Duping the T40 or maybe 3002M stats is probably fine for the moment.

Tier 7 & 8 matches look good.

Type 61 stats might be a better match for the T50. Again, don't worry about the autoloader thing, just consider spots & damage.

Tier 10's odd because the mediums aren't in the right order in WN8. I suspect that the 50/51 won't be played as yolo as the Batchat because it's too large and doesn't have the burst, so the spots will come out more like Leo/AMX30. I'd expect greater damage than those, but I could be wrong.

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Download link to v24: https://www.dropbox.com/s/mvtjeujqd4jn9qh/expected_tank_values_24.csv?dl=0

Change list:

Added:
tank	substituted_tank	subbed_id	tank_id	eFRAG	eDAMAGE	eSPOT	eDEF	eWIN
Kolohousenka	Vickers Medium 1	81	113	1.84	236.06	1.15	1.17	58.12
LT vz. 35	Pz 35(t)	785	369	1.57	267.99	1.91	1.58	59.25
LT vz. 38	Pz 38(t)	3345	625	1.5	357.54	1.58	1.3	59.81
ST vz. 39	D.W. 2	13329	881	1.27	442.43	1.1	1.25	55.51
Skoda T 24	Chi Nu	1377	1137	0.97	498.7	1.21	1.07	53.94
Skoda T 25	VK 3002M	15889	1393	0.97	727.87	1.38	1	52.02
T-34/100	T-34-1	1073	1649	0.97	961.38	1.52	0.95	54.26
TVP VTU Koncept	T-34-2	1585	1905	0.82	1029.33	1.59	0.87	50.66
Skoda T 50 	Type 61	3425	2161	0.95	1594.17	1.22	0.8	50.61
TVP T 50/51	STB-1	3681	2417	1.05	1935.41	1.5	0.86	49.77
T18 	M37	4641	18465	1.05	406.62	0.12	1.57	53.75
T82 	M7 Priest	3617	18721	1.03	573.65	0.11	1.99	51.32
Skoda T 40 	VK 3001p	7185	51569	0.92	691.84	1.29	0.82	53.09
IS3 Auto	IS3	5377	60417	0.92	1326.33	1.06	0.74	52.3
T-28E F-30	1.2*T-28	1537	61441	1.34	514.15	1.58	1.14	57.06
T22SR A22	STB-1	3681	61697	1.05	1935.41	1.5	0.86	49.77
Sherman M4A1 Revalorisé	AMX AC 48	12097	63041	0.93	1289.86	0.77	0.94	49.97
59 Patton 	Pershing	5921	63793	0.85	1127.16	1.53	0.99	51.94
43 М. Toldi III	T-15	54801	63505	1.33	291.51	1.47	1.51	57

I'll shoot Phalynx a PM tomorrow if these look good.

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As someone who is sadist enough to have purchased a 59 patton I can say unequivocally that it is significantly worse than a Pershing in every possible way.

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Ah right, it should have Type 59 values as I recall. Any other glaring issues?

Reminder: All new arty should use British tree values because they're much more representative of post-8.6 arty.

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Reminder: All new arty should use British tree values because they're much more representative of post-8.6 arty.

Hmm, alright. Do you have any specific data differences between these arty and their British counterparts from your interval data? i.e. Is there a quick scalar fix to give them more accurate expecteds? I suppose this applies to the rest of arty if it's even worth fixing. 

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There's no quick scalar fix because pre-8.6 arty weren't balanced against each other. There were a handful of grossly overpowered ones (eg SU-26, M7 Priest, SU-5, M41, SU-8), some moderately overpowered and some that barely changed. Currently they're quite balanced, so just using the British values makes sense, except at tier 10.

If you want to correct older arty to post-8.6 values with an automated method, just do another pass that throws away accounts created before 8.6 and take the SPG values from that. There are plenty of post-8.6 accounts now.

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Alright, should be good now. Might consider overhauling arty for the next update; we'll see how lazy I am.

Changelog:
59 Patton received Type 59 expected values
T18 received Sexton II values
T82 received Birch Gun values

https://www.dropbox.com/s/gr9gf8sb4tk3wb0/expected_tenk_values_24.csv?dl=0

I'll let Phalynx and Never know.

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Ok, something very bad happened. Values and tank IDs are not matched up correctly. I can't see any particular pattern. It's not just an off-by-one, looks more like a totally different sort order.

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I think there are some mistakes in the expected values. Because a T95 (8737) never has an expected damage of 250.

EDIT: Sorry, did not saw the other post.

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I have a question @Kitten . I have a different WN8 value using XVM than WoTLabs shows me. It shows me the values of sites like wotlife or wot-ts, I won't complain because it gives me more tho. :serb:

WoTLabs is the correct one. I imagine XVM will go back to the correct value given two weeks or so.

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@Kitten I'm getting poked left and right about the KR, any news?

List updated:

Missing Tanks:
Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation   Status
M46 Patton KR            57121  8     medium  usa      prem

Supertest:
Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation   Status
Т-44-100                 61953  8     medium  ussr
Object 244               60161  6     heavy   ussr
Object 777               61185  10    heavy   ussr
KV-4 KTTS                62209  8     td      ussr
Turán III prototípus     63249  5     medium  germany
Panzer 58 / Mutz         63761  8     medium  germany
VK 45.03                 62993  7     heavy   germany
VK 100.01 (P) / Typ 205  62737  8     heavy   germany
Steyr WT                 61713  7     td      germany
Rhm Skorpion             62481  8     td      germany
M48A2                    56865  10    medium  usa
Sentinel AC I            52817  6     medium  uk
FV4202 (105)             55633  8     medium  uk
Chieftain/T95            15441  8     medium  uk
Chieftain Mk. 6          15185  10    heavy   uk
AMX M4 mle. 49           62785  8     heavy   france
121B                     63537  10    medium  chinese

 

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Hmm, ok, tomorrow I will add it. Honestly expected WG to release something else, but less work for me :D

Apparently there are missions for the tier 8 FV4202 starting towards the end of January, so you could throw that in. Looks like a slightly inferior Centurion.

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@Kitten

Most pre 0.8.6 artis got nerfed with that patch, while british t8-10 handle more like unnerfed pre 0.8.6 arti. Same goes for M53/55 an other great example - introduced with 0.8.6 but not adjusted.

It can nearly perform on the level of the pre nerf Obj212, considered by most the best former t7 arti.

 

The obvious former OP SPGs aside, the nerfhammer didn't hit them all equally hard. 0.8.6 was nothing but a big fucking mess, that just shifted problems around, created new ones, solved nothing and totally screwd up inter arti balance in higher tiers at least.

 

The avg random fucktard clicker won't notice much of that, but if you played(ed) arti seriously it becomes obvious, which leads to the problem that WN8 can't really handle arti.

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Just noticed that there are two different Panzer 58s in the API: G119_Panzer58 (ID 63791) and G119_Pz58_Mutz (ID 64273). Anyone know which one is actually going in the game?

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