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WN8 Expected Values Update

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You really ought to do it for a version.  I was playing a game with some shitter in a batchat and someone using XVM called him out for 3k rating.  He did 4200 useless damage on Westfield in the East.  Check his profile? 2k M46 games, 2k E-50, 2k batchat. Nothing over 61% win rate. Ok but not impressive dpgs, especially given the win rates and xpg.  The true antichrist of WN8 was found. 

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8 hours ago, Kitten said:

M46 Patton expected damage doubled E50 expected damage tripled 

Really? It is not bad on April 1, but as usual - is a delirium.

Problems with the underestimation of some tanks? Look for errors in the method.
WN8 has been good because it was based on pure mathematics without subjective speculation. If you refuse this principle (especially so clearly) people will lose trust in you. Why are the values increased so much? Why does not increase values for other tanks with the same problems? Why fair players have to suffer because of a handful of liars?

 

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2 minutes ago, seriych said:

Really? It is not bad on April 1, but as usual - is a delirium.

Problems with the underestimation of some tanks? Look for errors in the method.
WN8 has been good because it was based on pure mathematics without subjective speculation. If you refuse this principle (especially so clearly) people will lose trust in you. Why are the values increased so much? Why does not increase values for other tanks with the same problems? Why fair players have to suffer because of a handful of liars?

 

It'll just be for a few weeks my friend :) v30 will be based off of the data as usual. 

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And what's the point? Why show a false ranking of all players in a few weeks? This will only show your helplessness to liars (because you do not come up with the normal method), and to other players just mess rankings.


 

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23 minutes ago, seriych said:

Really? It is not bad on April 1, but as usual - is a delirium.

Problems with the underestimation of some tanks? Look for errors in the method.
WN8 has been good because it was based on pure mathematics without subjective speculation. If you refuse this principle (especially so clearly) people will lose trust in you. Why are the values increased so much? Why does not increase values for other tanks with the same problems? Why fair players have to suffer because of a handful of liars?

 

If there was any kind of corporate accountability, or even a reputation to maintain I'd totally share this perspective.  But really only the liars will "suffer" as their precious is diminished. For the normal player,  it will be a minor blip. 

And as Kitten notes,  it's highly temporary.  We've been running this shitshow for over 3 years now, and it's been mostly annoyances,  misinterpretations and padding. So yes,  it's delirium,  the delirium of the unappreciated.  Does XVM actually rely on revenue?  Is there a financial or respectability angle we're not considering?  Here on the NA server, its very small and the feel of charitable service has long run out! 

As for trust, consider this more of a recognition of the limitations of the metric that betray it's trusty usefulness, in a emphasis temporary way. Our helplessness is well documented, why run from it?  Does this game need a "better" rating? It's a false ranking either way. 

 

 

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3 minutes ago, seriych said:

And what's the point? Why show a false ranking of all players in a few weeks? This will only show your helplessness to liars (because you do not come up with the normal method), and to other players just mess rankings.


 

Merely an interesting experiment for a few weeks. You're right, WN8 doesn't really have anything to punish padders, and this is merely a gimmick. On the flip side, this will hardly change normal player's overalls so it's not the end of the world (retroactive systems are wonderful). If you really want to implement something much more fool proof, WN9 is done, and RichardNixon detailed how to do updates on his website. No one more suited than you guys with your dataset :) If you want something similar to current arrangement where I provide Phalynx with a csv spreadsheet then I can work on getting rolling databases in the coming year. That's a lot of work for me to setup though, and I'm not particularly keen on it. 

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Keep up good work everyone! <3

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I agree with Seriych. I fail to see the point of harming WN8 on purpose.

Even if it's only for a short period of time, it sends a poor message for several reasons.

(Disregard if you guys are trolling Seriych :) )

 

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16 hours ago, Kitten said:

Merely an interesting experiment for a few weeks. You're right, WN8 doesn't really have anything to punish padders, and this is merely a gimmick. On the flip side, this will hardly change normal player's overalls so it's not the end of the world (retroactive systems are wonderful). If you really want to implement something much more fool proof, WN9 is done, and RichardNixon detailed how to do updates on his website. No one more suited than you guys with your dataset :) If you want something similar to current arrangement where I provide Phalynx with a csv spreadsheet then I can work on getting rolling databases in the coming year. That's a lot of work for me to setup though, and I'm not particularly keen on it. 

Has anyone other than RichardNixon used the guidance and generated a set of expected values for WN9? As the 'creator' seems to have left us once again (seems we have a pattern here) that would be the key step that would enable introduction of WN9.

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My recent jumped 1k overnight, what gives? Did you accidentally cut the E50 values in 1/3rd instead of tripling? :doge2:

 

71c8c8c8e01a7dba8587bed1a9549190.png

 

Overall remains totally unchanged tho, so idk how that happens.

 

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New Swedish T8 TD prem id:

NAME     ID     CLASS  TIER  NATION  NAME_ID
Strv S1  52097  TD     8     SWEDEN  S22_Strv_S1

sweden-S22_Strv_S1.png

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just for information: XVM uses v29 table with v28 values for M46 and E50.

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2 hours ago, seriych said:

just for information: XVM uses v29 table with v28 values for M46 and E50.

That's fine :). On a side note, how intensive would it be to implement WN9 for you guys?

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19 minutes ago, Kitten said:

On a side note, how intensive would it be to implement WN9 for you guys?

I do not quite understand the discussion in WN9 topic.

Do you need help with the collection of statistics? Or algorithm is completely ready and it remains only to realize? In any case you need to leave your inquiry here: http://www.koreanrandom.com/forum/forum/55-

 

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2 minutes ago, seriych said:

I do not quite understand the discussion in WN9 topic.

Do you need help with the collection of statistics? Or algorithm is completely ready and it remains only to realize? In any case you need to leave your inquiry here: http://www.koreanrandom.com/forum/forum/55-

 

The algorithm is ready. The only part we haven't done yet (and I will try to start doing at least once soon) is updating the expected values table for WN9.

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10 minutes ago, Kitten said:

The algorithm is ready. The only part we haven't done yet (and I will try to start doing at least once soon) is updating the expected values table for WN9.

Thus WN9 is not completely ready, and you do not need help from XVM now.

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5 minutes ago, seriych said:

Thus WN9 is not completely ready, and you do not need help from XVM now.

Yeah, I will let you guys know when it is.

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32 minutes ago, Kitten said:

Yeah, I will let you guys know when it is.

OK. I hope WN9 will solve problems of tanks such as E50 and padding damage by light tanks.

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Just sharing it here if other wants it;

0.9.17 // Main Branch -- Only playable by supertesters -- Probably new addition to the premium shop
Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation   Status    Name_ID
KV-122                   49921  7     heavy   ussr     test      R133_KV_122
Object 257               50433  10    heavy   ussr     test      R129_Object_257
VK 65.01 (H)             59409  5     heavy   germany  test      G122_VK6501H
T92 Lt                   57889  7     lt      usa      test      A99_T92_LT
Chrysler K               58657  8     heavy   usa      test      A115_Chrysler_K
Somua SM                 62273  8     heavy   france   test      F84_Somua_SM
T95/Chieftain            56401  10    medium  uk       test      GB88_T95_Chieftain_turret
Strv S1                  52097  8     td      sweden   test      S22_Strv_S1


0.9.17.1 // Common Test Branch
Name                     ID     Tier  Type    Nation   Status    Name_ID
VK 100.01 P              19729  8     ht      german   new       G115_Typ_205B
Mäuschen                 18705  9     ht      german   new       G110_Typ_205
Pz.Kpfw. VII             19473  10    ht      german   new       G92_VK7201P
T-44-85M                 57345  8     medium  ussr     new prem  R98_T44_85M
T-44-100M                48897  8     medium  ussr     new prem  R122_T44_100B
Tiger II (H)             49681  7     heavy   germany  new prem  G16_PzVIB_Tiger_II_F
Jagdtiger (H)            49425  8     td      germany  new prem  G44_JagdTigerH
Strv 81                  52353  8     medium  sweden   new prem  S23_Strv_81

 

ussr-R133_KV_122.pngussr-R129_Object_257.pnggermany-G122_VK6501H.pngusa-A99_T92_LT.pngusa-A115_Chrysler_K.pngfrance-F84_Somua_SM.pnguk-GB88_T95_Chieftain_turret.pngsweden-S22_Strv_S1.png

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Whats happening with tankIDs for the lights affected by the changes? Of course the new tanks will get new tankIDs, but what about the tanks changing tier? Is WG doing their usual thing of keeping the old tankID despite tier changes and nerfs?

Looks like NA will get the patch first; hope you guys can get an expected values update out before hand to preclude the usual gazillion threads on 'when will WN8 be updated' after every such change. I'm sure the moderators will be most grateful.

 

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