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Deusmortis

Mediums losing viability?

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Wg tries to nerf tier 10 TDs by making maps less suited for them, this ofc means that half the tanks of the game becomes crap, but thats the WG way of working...

 

Some tanks have bad pen? lets make gold for credits!

Some TDs have too little camo? lets rework the entire camo system!

 

WG sucks balls at fixing specific problems and more important they are to retarded to admit mistakes, like buffing TD camo in 8.6 (i think it was 8.6 can also be 8.5)

 

However most open turd maps suck balls, so im not complaining, old Svergorosk was a terrible, terrible map, its now atleast playable, same the new Pearl River is 10x better as it once was

 

Now they should remove Hidden village, rework North West, gtfo with swamp / el halluf / campinovka and rework some other maps

Actually thats pretty solid way of doing things if you can see further...

 

Mostly such changes have made wot more interesting imo.

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Well if we are going towards more heavy armor/ high alpha, doesn't the use of gold spam make it more about high alpha and perhaps mobility?

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Mediums are all about quadrature axis combat. If a battle line stretches N-S, you attack from the East or West. The ability to accomplish this has been somewhat diminished by maps which cover the quadrature axis with hard cover or impassable terrain. However, opportunities for this type of combat still exist. A key difference is the increasing difficulty of "passive" medium play, where you take up an early position and shoot heavies trying to reach their battle lane, or where you frequently peek or snipe from the same location for a period of time to suppress enemy movement. Now, you need to actively relocate and engage much more often to accomplish these roles.

 

Overall, playing a medium has become slightly harder. I think mediums were slightly too strong beforehand, but they may have been subtly nerfed a little too much from a metagame perspective. After the changes to TD camo and more map reworks the picture will become clearer.

Didn't mean to downvote you. Was scrolling on phone and browser went full retard.

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Combine the 2 by playing E-50M and be super boss.

I am having the most luck with that tank these days. Although bouncing 270 pen round off of soft tanks at close range is getting old. But at least it bounces it's fair share of incoming. I actually have been having fun in it.

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Severogorsk rework is the biggest shit that ever came out of WG craphole.

 

Sorry for the gutter language.

 

But that map gets me raging every time. The old version reinforced intelligent play with lines of fire all across the map. If you weren't careful, you were punished. Brainless tankers died first. Admittedly, it had one flaw: the td camper hill in the north. If they had simply removed the bushes from that spot the map would have been fine.

Instead they created a map that has no viable firing lanes at all where every engagement is fought at less than 100m. The only tanks that work are heavies, TDs with massive alpha, arty and well armoured mediums. Play a scout, soft TD or soft med and you are screwed.

 

And we are getting more of this garbage. Windstorm already comes close (vision game plays practically no role). The Tundra rework looks to be just as bad. Hidden Village was crappy from the start, ...

 

It's making me depressed. I like medium gameplay: it's versatile and requires intelligence. But WG trying to dumb down its game will deprive it of part of its flavour.

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Severogorsk rework is the biggest shit that ever came out of WG craphole.

 

But that map gets me raging every time. The old version reinforced intelligent play with lines of fire all across the map. If you weren't careful, you were punished. Brainless tankers died first. Admittedly, it had one flaw: the td camper hill in the north. If they had simply removed the bushes from that spot the map would have been fine.

 

For me the main problem was that those lines of fire were borderline being in draw range; so people running XVM with that on the minimap had a massive advantage. Definitely needed to be tweaked instead of reworked.

 

On the bright side the middle of the map has become a lot more used.

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For me the main problem was that those lines of fire were borderline being in draw range; so people running XVM with that on the minimap had a massive advantage. Definitely needed to be tweaked instead of reworked.

 

On the bright side the middle of the map has become a lot more used.

The middle of the map is where terribad players like me die (even though I don't go there for the trench but to kill other terribad players from the edges)

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And we are getting more of this garbage. Windstorm already comes close (vision game plays practically no role). The Tundra rework looks to be just as bad. Hidden Village was crappy from the start, ...

 

It's making me depressed. I like medium gameplay: it's versatile and requires intelligence. But WG trying to dumb down its game will deprive it of part of its flavour.

 

Windstorm is actually an interesting brawly map, though.  While you're right that there aren't many long firing lines or vision games areas, there are a lot of intertwined movement routes and fire lanes.  Much better than Himmels or Ruinberg's extremely limited number of streets.

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Probably just a revival of an old whine:  "Enemy team has heavies and we have meds, we lose!"  "Balance heavy numbers on each team"

 

"red, red, whine"...as it were.

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Glad to see I'm not the only one having troubles with the STA-1. Did completely fine with the T-44 and other ones before it. Did fine with the Chi-to and hated the Chi-ri which doesn't count as a true medium. But the STA-1? Doesn't seem to cut it in the current maps. It's becoming brawl-centric. 

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Glad to see I'm not the only one having troubles with the STA-1. Did completely fine with the T-44 and other ones before it. Did fine with the Chi-to and hated the Chi-ri which doesn't count as a true medium. But the STA-1? Doesn't seem to cut it in the current maps. It's becoming brawl-centric. 

The STA is the Japanese version of the indien pz

 

basically. yet it is still a better tank than the ip. although playwise, very close. have you played the IP?

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The STA is the Japanese version of the indien pz

 

basically. yet it is still a better tank than the ip. although playwise, very close. have you played the IP?

 

I own an Indien Panzer (henceforth referred to as Currypanzer), clocked 100 or so games with it. I guess it is a good example of a low alpha medium with average speed and a relatively weak turret (the mantlet is a lie).

I didn't do too well in it at first, took me a while to get the play style right. It's a long range hull down sniper and mid/late game flanker/clean up. This of course, means it doesn't do too well in the new meta with all those choke points. With the new map updates, I had to resort to playing cautiously as a rear sniper early game then proceeding to clean up/flank in mid or late games.

 

In maps like the new Severogorsk with mainly choke points, I tend to play defensive centre, knocking out early scouts or overly aggressive mediums pushing middle. This also has the added effect of giving me a good position to flank mid/late game without relying too much on my, at best, average speed.

 

In close quarters combat maps like Himmelsdorf, cautionary early play waiting for flanking avenues is my usual. If there really isn't any chance for an easy flank, the most I can do is to attempt shots at distracted opponents. This however is less than ideal.

 

With most of the maps falling more into the side of choke point brawling and less long range view control and sniping, low alpha fragile mediums are getting their arse handed  to them quite badly. Most of them are now shifted to more defensive early play and late game clean up rather than their original long-range support role.

 

The problem lies with the number of roles a tank can fulfil on a battlefield and how well it fulfils it. Well armoured turreted, high alpha mediums can brawl and aggressively flank and are given more opportunities to do so. Low alpha, fragile mediums can snipe and perform flanking, but less aggressively. They however, are given less opportunities to do so.

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The STA is the Japanese version of the indien pz

 

basically. yet it is still a better tank than the ip. although playwise, very close. have you played the IP?

 

Yes, I know. The comparison is apt. My point is it just doesn't fare very well on the revamped maps or the newer ones. 

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Regarding Sta-1, im playing it atm, and its trash, i hate it more as chi ri...

 

dunno if its the tank (the tank is trash, frontal fuel tanks, HE can penetrate your armor, positive gun depression when aiming backwards and 10 other flaws) or the maps**, but all in all it sucks big time, easy 1 of the worst tier 8 (grinds) i ever played (and i played them all...)

 

**The maps dont fit paper meds with 0 redeeming qualitys except camping either....

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Yes, I know. The comparison is apt. My point is it just doesn't fare very well on the revamped maps or the newer ones. 

 

Its mainly the tank. Also team meta. Aggressiveness is punished. If I care enough about this game after we return from our spring trip ill get the leo and test that. But so far with the WZ and stb and type61 I haven't seen the maps to be an actual issue.

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Maybe for average players mediums don't give them the alpha or armor they need to do well. But for deep purples I think mediums are probably the best carry tanks. The combination of good guns, mobility, vision and camo let you influence the game anywhere on the map as much as possible.

Right now i ussually solo 2-5 t10 mediums a night. I wish there were more good premium mediums that play like mediums (damn the type 59 being pulled from the store right before I started spending money on tanks).

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I can confirm things like the Leo aren't enjoying the new meta. Severogorsk, two ruinsburgs, two himmelsdorfs, pearl river, and brawlstorm are all really difficult additions to deal with in that kind tank. The changes to Highway and Redshire don't make the Leo as effective as it used to be on those maps, either.

 

I don't know how the next city map or the arctic region/komarin changes will look for vision/camo tanks, but considering they are already good for them the only things that could happen is that they either stay that way or get worse. It's actually getting kind of lame to queue up in tanks that cant brawl well, because more than half the maps nowadays are just streets, narrow passages, and chokepoints that feed you into heavies and giant TDs cannons.

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Arctic region rework is good imho. They added a whole lot of playable area and there are still firing lanes around, with dumps, dips, roads, depressions and terrain stuff. pretty good.

 

Komarin is still a shit imho. Ah, and they made it more brawlish.

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so if I can ask, what mediums if any, are helped by the upcoming changes and results on the meta?

 

US, British, Russian and/or perhaps the German 50m line?

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Well, got back into the E-50 and T-54 after I finished off the On Track.  I feel I should change the title of the thread.  Mediums are fine, but the paper snipers are in a bad place.  I was able to do well in the few PTA games I ran while my 61 was stuck in a match.  Even without depression, that tank can dance well enough to avoid exposure, so had a much greater life expectancy than my 61.  Gun works better as well, and I rarely if ever felt the 1 RPM difference.

 

54 and 50 are great though.  54 shreds tanks and hides without effort.   50 bullies like a heavy, bounces TD shots, can scrape against tier 10s, and rams sub 10 waffles for 600+  I think these two tanks will be the backbone of my summer play.  Unlike the paper snipers, they can actually carry when your out of school reds have a typical 2 minutes of fun match.

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Confirming, medium tanks are losing viability

Every map is turning into a shitty closed off brawlfest

 

Yeah they did the same garbage with tundra in 9.1 that they did to severogorsk in 9.0

 

I really hope they stop fk*** up the maps for meds.  They were difficult enough to play at high tiers without the shite edits.

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9.1 Tundra isn't nearly as bad as Severgorsk. Both have close range face punching areas on the east. Severgorsk west is useless; the single path almost always ends up as a stalemate. The middle is also mostly useless.

New Tundra on the other hand rewards aggressive play in the west. Plus the larger number of paths in the middle allow you exploit open paths to flank enemies that are preoccupied.

Arctic Region is the redesigned map I am least impressed with. It was shitty and stale before and it hasn't changed much. Middle is still mostly useless due to sniping perches near cap. West is hard to push due to defenders having stand off distance and bushes. And increasing the paths in southeast corner really didn't change the fact that it's a shitty spot unless you're a tough heavy with some depression.

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I don't principally see mediums as being obsoleted by the trend in map changes. 
As stated by others, it's just as focused at getting rid of those same sight lines TD's abuse -- and they abuse it harder by dint of alpha, DPM and clip. That they have typically terrific armor to sustain incoming shots if they are lit, rounds out their meta popularity. 

 

True: mediums should tread lightly in those areas changed to facilitate more movement by just increasing the density of chokepoints, such that you alleviate the gridlock, however, once a match is thinned out of tanks just a bit, flanking opportunities should be, if anything, improved.

There's more alternate paths in the new map design biases, and the unguarded flank is the purview of the medium. 

 

======================

 

The slight maze of paths you see in the newest El Halluf changes (totally overhauled far North) reminds me slightly of the changes to the middle of Serene Coast. 

Arguably one of the worst maps ever when introduced, it came back with a checkered, cluttered middle -- paths within it, the de-facto "middle" path on that map. I honestly think it's now one of the better maps. 

 

And that's the trend I see. There still are grossly 1-2-3 corridors, (sometimes just 2) but one of those corridors tends to be getting a lot of spiderweb trails, buildings, rocks, or breakups such that dynamic repositioning can become a force to be reckoned with. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The constant never-winner is light tanks. They need genuine love, they're just a try-hard, niche appeal. I personally find them fun, but they're just a curiosity. 

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