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CarbonatedPork

Panther/M10: The Clearance-Aisle Comet

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I don't see a lot of people talking about the tier 7 premium Warcrimes Panther but from what I can tell the general consensus is that it's pretty terrible. I picked it up over the weekend thanks to a 30% discount and some tournament gold and I've got to say that it's not as bad as I thought it would be.
 
Here's a list of pros and cons for the tank:

  • + Sheltered matchmaking has you only seeing tier 8s.
  • + High rate of fire sometimes lets you get two shots in during an opponent's reload.
  • + Mantlet and turret have enough armor to use your DPM effectively if you stay hulldown.
  • + Side armor is flat and meaty enough to be somewhat workable in sidescraping situations.
  • + 1300 HP will help keep you alive in mid-to-late game when you're crossing a lot of open ground.
  • + Reload time allows you to quickly swap between AP and APCR rounds to make a decent profit.
  • ~ Mobility is so-so. Fast enough to flex but not fast enough to flank in many situations.
  • ~ 8 degrees of gun depression is enough to abuse the turret but not to the same extent as the Comet's 12 degrees.
  • - 350m base view range and terrible camo values won't win you many vision battles.
  • - Alpha damage is very low; you're not going to be sneaking a lot of peekaboo shots or scaring anyone away with its gun.
  • - Penetration of APCR is not substantially better than the AP round, making frontal fights with heavies difficult.
  • - Can't mount a VStab, which makes snapshots and shooting on the move ineffective.
  • - Front hull armor is weak and will be penned a lot if exposed.

So what do you all think about the Panther/M10? What equipment and crew skills do you use? I'm running a new crew with 50% camo and GLD/rammer/optics but am considering swapping the GLD for vents to get a little more DPM and view range. I'm sure Smooth Ride and Snap Shot will help keep that aim time usable.

 

Edit: Removed "best-in-class" DPM per Rexxie. It's actually average or below depending on whether or not you're including first shot aim time.

Edited by CarbonatedPork
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How does the DPM hold up? I considered buying this thing to have some premium for German medium crews, but it reloads slower than the VK30.01 (M), and in conjunction with the terribad view range that kept me from getting it.

 

What's the average profit you run?

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How does the DPM hold up? I considered buying this thing to have some premium for German medium crews, but it reloads slower than the VK30.01 (M), and in conjunction with the terribad view range that kept me from getting it.

 

What's the average profit you run?

I bought the T25 instead, its been a decent tank. No so much for credits, but the gun on a tier 5 is very workable.

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IMO It's basically not worth driving if you have an E 25, as the latter is so much more fun and effective. 

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How does the DPM hold up?

It's really fast with a rammer. A bit slower than the Comet, but the time between shots is enough to wiggle around a bit instead of sitting still while spitting DPM out. 

 

What's the average profit you run?

I'm hitting 22k with a premium account. It'd probably be higher if I didn't shoot APCR in situations where AP would work. Not anywhere near a tier 8 premium, but this is my German medium crew trainer.

IMO It's basically not worth driving if you have an E 25, as the latter is so much more fun and effective. 

Yes, they're really in different leagues. The E-25 is amazing; the Panther/M10 is merely workable but makes a profit and trains medium crews.

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Personally I'd rather run the T25 or even the Schmaltrum or however you spell it over the war crimes.  About the only way I can stomach running the war crimes when platooned with E25s.

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Personally I'd rather run the T25

I hear you. Personally, I'd rather stay out of tier 5 if I can avoid it and thus I'd rather drive a difficult tank at tier 7 than a better one at tier 5. I think the Warcrimes' sheltered matchmaking is its saving grace. It's a bit like tier 9 in that regard for solopubbing.

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I bought the T25 instead, its been a decent tank. No so much for credits, but the gun on a tier 5 is very workable.

 

I ran tier 5 for the T34 event, and I've arrived at the conclusion it's just not worth it to play that tier unless you have pref MM.

 

 

Personally I'd rather run the T25 or even the Schmaltrum or however you spell it over the war crimes.  About the only way I can stomach running the war crimes when platooned with E25s.

 

Do you play the Schmalturm regularly?

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Do you play the Schmalturm regularly?

Heh no.  I made an alt account and played it on that quite a bit about a year ago.  I try not to play anything below Tier 8 unless I'm grinding a line or helping someone grind a line.

 

 

The Comet is insulted that you would even make such a comparison.

That's sort of what I was thinking.  Comet is amazing.

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The Comet is insulted that you would even make such a comparison.

Definitely. The Comet is much better. I guess what I'm getting at is that the Panther/M10 is passable for grinding XP and credits if you play it the same way. You won't be making a lot of money running the Comet because its comparable AP round is going to have a lot of trouble penning tier 9s.

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I'd say it's mostly junk. On the other hand I put my best German crew in it, started playing it more like the Panther, and it's doing better. I dumped optics entirely for vents and resigned myself to staying the hell away from anything resembling a front line and it seems almost decent. I still wouldn't recommend it to any one yet.

 

Basically if you want to know what the Warcrime is like, play the Panther. By the time you take into account the sheltered MM relative to the weaker gun it's actually fairly close. You tend to need a lot of gold with the P/M10 since it's not as accurate and the AP isn't as good for its MM, which is balanced out by the increased credit earning.

 

But really, every other German premium is more likable and better in my experience. The S35 is tough and entertaining, the T-25 is awkward but effective, and the PZ IVS has been awesome. Unlike the P/M10 it hulls down really well because of its form and better turret armor relative to MM. It also has better view range and camo, which make it far more workable in the role of sniping medium. You can front anchor positions in a lot of situations in the PZ IVS, while the P/M10 falls flat on its face trying the same.

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OK, gonna fess up. This tank is pretty bad. On Garbad's 10 point scale, I'd probably put the thing at a 3. It's workable, but you have to be 100% on top of your game to make the tank do good things. Still, I think I'm going to use it to train up an E 50 crew from scratch.

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OK, gonna fess up. This tank is pretty bad. On Garbad's 10 point scale, I'd probably put the thing at a 3. It's workable, but you have to be 100% on top of your game to make the tank do good things. Still, I think I'm going to use it to train up an E 50 crew from scratch.

 

Are the rest of the German mediums so bad that you're not using them, or is this a case of "using this for an extra X2 while also using <insert other medium> at tier Y because it's elited"?

 

I've used my KV-1 to train commanders for the next two tanks in that line. If there was a premium RU heavy (and I had any intention of finishing the line) I'd buy it and use the KV-1 in concert with it to pre-train crews to swap when I got higher tiers.

 

Is that kind of what you're doing or am I missing something?

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Are the rest of the German mediums so bad that you're not using them, or is this a case of "using this for an extra X2 while also using <insert other medium> at tier Y because it's elited"?

 

I've used my KV-1 to train commanders for the next two tanks in that line. If there was a premium RU heavy (and I had any intention of finishing the line) I'd buy it and use the KV-1 in concert with it to pre-train crews to swap when I got higher tiers.

 

Is that kind of what you're doing or am I missing something?

I haven't even started down the line, to be honest. Was considering free XPing most of the line 'til the E 50 and grinding on the Panther/M10 to generate credits to buy the tanks once I got there, but now I'm not sure.

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I haven't even started down the line, to be honest. Was considering free XPing most of the line 'til the E 50 and grinding on the Panther/M10 to generate credits to buy the tanks once I got there, but now I'm not sure.

Honestly I didn't mind the line except for the Panther.  The low alpha is just a killer and any close quarters map I just couldn't make it work.  I also played the tank when I was considerably worse, so maybe that's my problem.  I'm currently about halfway through the Panther II, and despite all the complaining I read it doesn't seem that terrible. 

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I find it pretty good. In higher tier you are purely support and this tank cant carry much, although in lower tiers you can easily bully smaller opponents or just outkill them with your HP and decent dpm.

 

It definitely makes far more credits for me than SU-122-44.

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I loathe the thing, what a waste of money compared to the E25 or SU-122-44.  I generally don't make more money with it, because it's so gold dependent.  You can't get away with bouncing shots like you can in the E25 because you're still camoflaged.  It's basically a stock panther (commonly known as one of the worst stock tanks) with the view range of a tier 6 heavy, while being much bigger and slower than a KV-1S.  It only has accuracy, RoF and hitpoints, all of which are canceled out by it's penetration and vision.  I like the Pz4 Schumalturm much better, beccause it's basically the same tank and same MM with less hitpoints, with stonger armor for it's tier and good view range.  Hence the 33% of the time you get in a battle tier 6 match more than makes up for the battle tier 8 matches. 

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At least we have the new tier 8 premium to maybe get excited about! 

 

3 prems Im begging to give WG all my $ for:

 

American TD (if 90mm, who cares if pref?)

RU Medium (if pref MM, YES!)

German Med (If pref MM, YES!)

 

As one who is constantly on the look out for some quick credits, cause I never have any, these premium alone would make me enough $ in game just running them alone to fund whatever the hell I needed to buy

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At least we have the new tier 8 premium to maybe get excited about! 

 

3 prems Im begging to give WG all my $ for:

 

American TD (if 90mm, who cares if pref?)

RU Medium (if pref MM, YES!)

German Med (If pref MM, YES!)

 

As one who is constantly on the look out for some quick credits, cause I never have any, these premium alone would make me enough $ in game just running them alone to fund whatever the hell I needed to buy

^

 

I love my FCM 50 t. If any of these are profitable, fun, and have preferential matchmaking I'm going to buy them in a heartbeat.

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I bought this tank on a 50% sale ages ago. Up to date it is my worst performing tank.
I was kinda surprised when I looked my stats in it up as I didn't expect that I would do that bad. I am sitting at a sub-40%-WR with a significant amount of games played.
The only way I can make this work is if I play it like I would play the real Panther: Long distance sniper abusing side scraping and hull down. The only problem with that is the gun. 150mm Pen and worse DPM than the VK 30.02.M that is one tier lower...   If I shoot gold and reload AP if I meet a soft target it is ok. Otherwise not.
Before that I used to run AP and switched to gold later on. Just don't. You already have a hard time projecting the meager DPM with 200mm pen. If you miss damage because you had no chance of penning (I am thi nking about the T29 front in particular here. 150mm pen will bounce quite often unless you hit the MG Port. But who exposes that one unless completely in the open?) And in case you want to flank... You are driving a Panther. This tank has neither the mobility nor the camo nor the DPM to be a successful flanker.

If anyone should think avout getting it: I got it for 50% less during a sale and I still regret buying it. There is nothign it has to offer that other tanks can't do better except the Panther looks. It is workable, but not fun as you NEED to shoot gold to be competitive with most tanks.

And this is coming from a guy that loves his regular Panther to bits. I am most likely still going to buy the premium Panther Ausf. F they plan to introduce because Panther. Just like the reason I had to buy this tank.

2/10 would not recommend. Except for the looks. Panther I wub you.

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You can replace the in game model to make it look like the real panther. That is probably the only plus for this tank. Its not _so_ bad, but T-25 is more fun as a crew trainer, and tier 8s make more money.

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